During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
- Marada the She-Wolf: Simyon Karashnur the sorcerer and the demon he serves, Y'Garon, are the equally-vile rulers of ancient Damascus and the arch-enemies of Marada. The citizens Simyon rules over live in routine torture of the screams coming from his tower, where he routinely tortures people to death. Among his many tributes to Y'Garon, Simyon offered Marada as a consort to Y'Garon, resulting in her agonizing rape; the two later kidnap Marada's innocent friend, and Y'Garon promises to defile Marada once more before forcing her to watch as he moves onto her friend.
- Iron Man: General Milos Radanovich is a genocidal Russian war criminal who stokes a race war between Christians and Muslims within Siberia after the fall of the Iron Curtain. A raving sadist who has innocent people massacred entire streets at a time, Radanovich once crushed the hands of a man for playing music, then forced him and his young daughter to watch as his wife was raped and tortured to death. Meeting the aforementioned daughter years later as a grown rebel, Radanovich boasts that with a hundred women like her, he could breed the imaginary, perfect Russian race of his dreams.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Mind if I play with that first sentence a bit?
- Epic Illustrated's issue #10's "Marada the She-Wolf": Simyon Karashnur and the demon he serves, Y'Garon...
And Insane Admiral for Milos's name?
Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2022 at 7:30:04 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Renegade Russian tbh sounds better ?
Edited by miraculous on Mar 17th 2022 at 4:32:12 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That might work.
I'm trying to decide if Politically Incorrect Villain works; Scraggle, does he want a race war because he hates Muslims and Christians, or just because he's an insane lunatic?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The comic's honestly kinda vague on that. I assume both or either apply.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm...in that case, Insane Admiral for his name, Renegade Russian around "genocidal Russian war criminal".
The change(s) for Marada work? I assume Serial Rapist applies here.
Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2022 at 8:04:33 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Imperfect Disgrace
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Emperor.
Also, cut Skeletor. This is what happens with villains from a kids' show; they are more likely to get mitigating factors than, say, someone from a horror movie or other more mature media, so it's best to wait until their story arc is completed.
Edited by Misry6 on Mar 17th 2022 at 5:10:54 AM
Just an empty void…
for the Thrax video (no watermark), the Beast video..., Kaiser (wow), the Grace Brothers, Randovitch, Teppeus, Mezalord, and the Bloodstone Emperor,
A tentative ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Tune.
Cut Skeletor
My condolences, Snoke.
I agree Skeletor's a cut but I don't think there was a problem with proposing him after the break between seasons, we've had some seriously nasty villains to come from kids media.
Cut the new decade Skeletor.
Condolences, Snoke.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Found this on Y'Garon's Marvel fandom entry: "The Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe hypothesized that Chris Claremont based this character's name on the Cthulhu Mythos entity Y'golonac (whose feature of having eyes on his palms may have been the basis for Lloigoroth)."
Explains a lot.
Also, I think I'll use Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil for Y'Garon.
Edited by ACW on Mar 17th 2022 at 8:34:35 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Also, lemme ping ~beeruckzII for Bulbin's writeup.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to the Emperor
Caesar
Easy yep to the Emperor there 43, keep up the good work!
Lemme knock out one real quick Marvel courtesy of Scrags before my write-ups, have owed him this one way too long:
What's the work?
Gunhawks was an early 70s Marvel Comics title that ran for a mere 7 issues, set in the Old West and following the adventures of Kid Cassidy and Reno Jones, the son of a plantation owner and a slave at said plantation, respectively. Together, the duo became travelling gunfighters during the time of the Civil War, driven to ally with the Confederacy following Union soldiers slaughtering Cassidy's kind father and kidnapping Reno's girlfriend. And through their adventures, the most recurring baddie they faced...
Who is Warren Worth? What has he done?
A vicious, racist Union Captain hiding behind a facade of gentlemanliness, Warren Worth is introduced arresting Reno and Cassidy purely for Reno's skin color, nonetheless swearing up and down that he's not a racist and just wants to be efficient in arresting potential ne'er-do-wells.
Abooouuut 5 pages later Worth reveals he's intending to march on a nearby Cheyenne village and slaughter every last occupant out of nothing but sadistic, gleeful racism, proudly boasting "these aren't humans we're facing, just savages!" Worth uses the thin-ass reasoning of "protecting" true Americans to justify his attack, and orders every last occupant murdered where they stand...
...and surprisingly enough, Worth totally succeeds in his plan here! A brutal massacre of the villagers depicted onscreen down to the crying, terrified toddlers.
Threatening Reno for trying to warn the villagers and barely letting him go with his life while dropping the mask of feigned acceptance and spouting vile racism to Reno, Worth takes any survivors of the village as prisoners to be hanged publicly. Worth later makes his way to another Cheyenne village where, despite being informed that the village is mostly unarmed and defenseless, Worth kills off its people just the same.
Later witnessing Reno apparently shoot and kill Cassidy, the bloodthirsty Worth orders that a massive bounty be put on Reno so "the darkie" will be hunted down and killed...even when one of his own soldiers reveals that Reno didn't kill Cassidy? Worth orders him to shut up about it and put out the hit anyway, wanting to eliminate Reno above all else...and all while smugly bragging his intentions to,, once Reno is eliminated, travel across the countryside and wipe out every last Native American village he finds until the whole race is decimated.
And though Worth gets some karma when his latest attempt to capture Reno fails and Reno escapes, Worth last seen outraged over his failure, the comic was ended around this time and Worth never faced proper, definitive comeuppance for his evil. Hrmmm.
Mitigating features?
Nah, he tries to put up a noble front when he's first introduced, chastising one of his men for using slurs at Reno and repeatedly declaring that he's not a racist, but he pretty quickly devolves into spouting nasty slurs himself and his entire plan is built around racist massacres sooooo
He does have an odd sequence of letting Reno go with a warning after their first confrontation that even a fan wiki page humorously has a tangent of that it makes no sense and was likely used as nothing but a writing tool to get Reno out of imprisonment easily, but in the context of the story it's not framed as a Pet the Dog. Worth is just continuing to try to paint himself as a "real American" and gentleman, while truthfully he doesn't want to deal with the hassle of keeping Reno as prisoner and when Reno doesn't immediately kiss his ass for this "generosity", Worth snarls racism at Reno and declares that if he ever sees him again he'll kill him.
Heinousness?
Leads very, very brutal massacres against entire Cheyenne villages with literal crying infants shown in the midst of the flaming ruins lmao what more canya want?
Final Verdict?
Easy Yeah
Edited by Ravok on Mar 17th 2022 at 6:36:35 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Guess you could say Warren’s worth a
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Walter White.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So wait, they did an Old West comic book that had the good guys join the Confederacy, and demonised the Union? Wow, that premise has aged like milk. Then again, maybe the fact it only lasted 7 issues is a sign the readership have better taste than that.
Edited by MinisterOfSinister on Mar 17th 2022 at 1:42:21 PM
Warren sounds like a yes but I'll echo concern; does this comic just exist to push a toxic sociopolitical view? I know we've declined candidates from things like Chick Tracts and late-period Frank Miller comics due to that...
Folks... some faith in Ravok please? Definite yes to Warren.
We got up a keeper from Josey Wales, which was waaay worse on the "pro-Confederacy" front. I can verify for as cringey as this comic and its outdated values are, it's not like racist propaganda.
Yes to Worth.
& I legit didn't realize who posted it due to the new avatar. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Sorry Rav.
Edited by HamburgerTime on Mar 17th 2022 at 8:56:53 AM
We quite literally have Red Skull from an AU as a Union captain with Cap fighting for the Confederacy. This is fine.
No need to apologize buddy, just wanna state why I don't think this is a post to find 'red flags' in or pause for concern.
Edited by 43110 on Mar 17th 2022 at 9:58:14 AM
to Warren
Caesar
Yeah just gonna keep it simple: Jonah Hex was a Confederacy soldier at one time. Other Marvel CMs have been associated with the Union. Regardless of the beliefs the writer may or may not have had—of which I really paid little mind since it's a cheesy, pulpy Marvel comic—the story is not some propaganda. I promise, I know tasteless propaganda when I see it, and if it were remotely an issue worth discussing, I'd have mentioned it. It's totally fair to raise questions, but everyone can be assured that I'm not gonna be willy-nilly proposing from something if I think it's Confederacy propaganda
Edited by Ravok on Mar 17th 2022 at 7:05:28 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Understood. That Riddler mask disguised you just as well as it did Eddie Nashton!
