During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Professor Gigachad
Oh hey zcooper I haven't seen you around here in a while, though I mostly know you by a different name.
Anyway, that villain sounds like a cut.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Cut Wade
Cut wade, he sounds standard for a thriller film.
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut Wade, I guess.
Feels good, don't it?
Woagh
Wild Child
Cut Wade.
Why so serious?
Even reading over the entry he seems to have a bodycount of two and tries to otherwise kill the heroine and her family. Yeah, cut.
Cut Wade.
Hi Ordeaux 26. Yeah I did this same removal proposal on Villains wiki if you'd like to vote there.
I figured it helps that Wade endangers everyone in the raft without a second thought—making them go down the rivers knowing it's extremely dangerous and that they all could get killed, including him and his accomplices—and that's what helps him rise above being standard. Gonna keep my ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
to Johnny too.
What also helps Simone and Leah avoid this is not just their FE, but that they have to keep feeding off people if they want to keep living. They don't have a choice.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 23rd 2022 at 6:56:36 AM
That's still a very small bodycount
Professor Gigachad
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That is still kind of underwhelming for a thriller villain, only endangering a few people is something that happens all the time in these kinds of films.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 23rd 2022 at 6:54:44 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yes to Master Logos, Johnny 23, and (SCRUB ALL THE FLOORS IN) Ganelon.
No to Simone and Lena, cut Wade.
Woagh
to Issac and Johnny (Danny Trejo playing a Serial Rapist? That's new).
Killing 2 people and attempting to kill a few more people does not sound like enough to pass the baseline, especially for a thriller film. Sticking with my cut vote.
Edited by mariogalaxy on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:00:43 AM
Usually we approve Thriller villains with a minimum of three kills and while he doesn't quite have that, I would think his so callously threatening, endangering and wanting the death of a family, including a child helps make him stand out for those reasons—and that that was why we approved of him specifically to begin with. Wade did admittedly feel like a pretty soft keeper come to think of it and did feel a little off that he didn't quite make the mark and somehow he did. I'll lean ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping him as well.
You look at someone like Bill Cox who has a small Bodycount of 3, but the sheer, inherent nastiness to boot (such as poisoning a child with a peanut allergy to prove his point), Wade is not there ultimately. Kevin Bacon loses a keeper. Don't worry, he's got a few others left. Haha.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:22:00 AM
Issac & Johnny
I guess cut Wade
Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:13:49 AM
Mercer
Is Kendra Daniels not heinous enough?
Edited by Mediawatcher on Feb 23rd 2022 at 8:18:04 AM
to Gigatron, Albretch, Drednok, Father Luis, Nicholas "Spook" Reese, Ganelon, Professor Chang, Doyle, Challus Mercer, Isaac and Johnny 23.
Guess cut Wade.
Professor Gigachad
- Transformers: Animated fanfic Transformers Animated: The Mercy of Prime: Gigatron is Megatron's Bad Future counterpart, who manages to disgust even his past counterpart. Gigatron abandoned all of the positive traits and was focused on the single-minded goal of absolute godhood by any means. Gigatron would absorb the sparks of everyone in his time with the ultimate goal of absorbing the AllSpark and becoming an all-powerful god. When Gigatron's plan fails, he travels back to the past. When Gigatron arrives, he first Mind Rapes Optimus Prime by using the spark extractor slowly and painfully while showing Optimus images of him killing Sari. Later, Gigatron blows up Steelhaven, killing all the scientists on board. Gigatron begins his attack on Cybertron to kill everyone in it all over again and complete his mission to absorb the AllSpark.
Absolutely not. Though Kendra is a Manipulative Bitch who plays the crew of the USG Kellion for fools, she is NOWHERE as vile as Mercer.
Yes, she's a Smug Snake and Hate Sink after she reveals her true colors, but she's not heinous enough for this trope.
Edited by superboy313 on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:05:02 AM
Oh by the way, late to father Luis. that makes 4 buffy villains propose in the past 2 weeks, I think.
Edited by mariogalaxy on Feb 23rd 2022 at 8:13:22 AM
Kendra's definitely not bad enough. But y'know who is? Before writeups...
From Dead Space 3...
Who is Jacob Arthur Danik?
Soooo, what happens when you take a psychotic fanatic and give him too much power? You get Danik. Now, Unitology is a faith started by the earth government, but...they've lost the plot. Danik is the leader of a Unitologist splinter faction called The Circle that is insane, violent and fanatical even by their standards. Danik beleives the Markers are holy objects out to force Mankind into the next great phase of being and he wants to be the one to kickstart the eternal becoming.
The fact that the necromorphs are total monsters? Doesn't really deter him. And this entails freeing the Markers to do their thing. Danik launches attack on other worlds to liberate the Markers and spread the necromorph infection, devastating the city with an orbital bombardment on Uxor to track down his quarry, murdering the man's wife and son. With massive amounts of death behind him, Danik hunts the man who intends to stop the Markers: Isaac Clarke.
So, in essence, the Markers are replications of ancient alien artifacts that contain an alien code, or virus that once transmitted...is a formula for recombinant DNA...IE: changing it. This is where Necromorphs come from, as it works on necrotic flesh. The Markers are sentient and desire to create and spread the infections, by and large, driving some to homicidal or suicidal insanity to provide vectors to create Necromorphs.
In fact, these are the harbingers of the Brethren Moons, planet sized Necromorphs who operate on a cycle of using entire worlds' biomass to create new ones and eventually feeding on planets. Danik launches a brutal coup on the earth government, killing countless people in bloody destruction...Isaac begs Danik not to unleash the Markers, but Danik knows humanity will be destroyed and sees it as just a necessary path. L Earning of the dormant Brethren Moon above the world they're on, Danik decides to unleash it.
Over the course of their struggle, Danik forces Isaac to give up, with his girlfriend Ellie held hostage. Danik awakens the Brethren Moon to begin the apocalypse and is left staring in awe at the monstrosity...before a shard of debris rains down and impales him, ending the life of the madman.
Mitigating Issues?
He's voiced by Simon Templeman, is that redeeming?
Okay, so...obviously, my old concerns on Unitologists remain. The issue is Danik is so fanatic and the Circle so extreme that upon watching things again, it really seems Danik cares less about doing the right thing than he does being important and pushing them into it. He's a complete fanatic who sees the destruction of the human race as "necessary" for a new state of being.
But no, Danik's bodycount is unmatched in the entirety of the franchise. Danik has rained death and destruction on multiple worlds, freed Markers on multiple planets and unleashed the Necromorphs on them and oh yeah, he plans to unleash the brethren moons to kill all humankind.
Conclusion?
If Mercer keeps, Danik absolutely does.
I have a proposal for a minor antagonist that appeared in Jak 3.
What is the work?
Jak 3 is an open world platforming third person shooter taking place one year after the events of Jak 2: Renegade and mostly takes place in the Wasteland.
Who is he? What has he done?
Count Veger is the high ranking councilman in the Grand Counsil of Haven City. He aims to become a Precursor and "spread light to all corners of the universe"
His atrocities begin when he actually conspired with Baron Praxis to get rid of Damas and the House of Mar so Praxis can rule the city. Despite all the horrible things Praxis has done, Veger was shown enabling it. When the game begins, Veger banishes Jak to the Wasteland because of dark eco abilities and the Metal Head breach
When Jak was young, Veger used unethical experiments on him to harness his dark eco powers to unlock the Precursor artifacts
He later revealed that in order to gain access to the Catacombs, Veger personally bombs the Palace and framed the Metal Heads for it then proceeds to sic a Precursor robot after them while he heads back to the city.
When he returns he blackmails Haven City to beg for him to activate the planetary defense system when the Dark Maker Ship appears so he can rule the city.
After Damas gets crushed by the Slam Dozer, Veger holds Jak at gunpoint and sadistically taunted Jak about kidnapping his younger self and taunts Damas tragic death.
Heinous Standard
Veger operates as a personal villain for Jak due to essentially being responsible for Baron Praxis' actions as well as harnassing his powers when he was just so he can be a god. Veger is power hungry and sadistic, two traits he shares easily with Praxis and Kor.
Mitigating Factors
Zero. He acts like a gentleman, but is just a power-hungry sadistic hypocrite
Verdict?
Let's see: experiments on a child, bombs a city and kills thousands of people, frames Metal Heads for it, sadistically taunts Jak about Damas' death while his father is in his arm while at gunpoint and enabled all Baron Praxis' horrible crimes?
Big
Hey guys been a while since I've made a proposal on this wiki. Well...actually it's a removal proposal. And believe it or not it's a villain I proposed. But I'll admit I'm more unsure than anything else. I'll let you guys decide. I give you Wade from River Wild.
What is the Work?
River Wild is a thriller film starring Meryl Streep as our heroine, Gail Hartman and Kevin Bacon as our villain, Wade. She is taking her husband and son on a river adventure for his birthday. Wade and his partners, Terry and Frank, are trying to make it across the river with money they robbed from a cattle auction. Frank was injured and a guard got killed (presumably by Wade). When Frank, their guide succumbs to his wounds and proves useless, they kill him and they use Gail's family to blackmail her to get them across the Gauntlet.
Who is Wade and What has He done?
As I said before, Wade is the main villain of the film. He plays on Gail's son's Roarke's, emotions to turn him against his dad, and he threatens their lives if Gail doesn't help them get across the Gauntlet-ignoring her pleas and her warning that it could get them all killed. When they try to escape, Wade beat's Gail's husband, Tom, tries to shoot their dog, and slaps Roarke for telling them he had a gun. When a park ranger refuses to let them ride the Gauntlet for their safety, Wade shoots him in the stomach and throws him to the river, killing him. He then jokes about how he gave him his wish cause the ranger mentioned he'd like to ride the Gauntlet. Once Gail has them cornered at gun point, Wade begs for his life and when Gail shoots the last bullet in the air out of mercy, it doesn't fire and Wade orders Terry to kill Gail's husband and kid.
Miltigating Factors or Tragic Excuse?
None he has no tragedy and doesn't care for his men other than seeing them as useful, and all round is just a big a—hole. He's cocky and makes jokes about his killings as well as when he is about to kill people, like when he taunted Tom about the seconds he has to live before he tries to shoot him.
Heinous Standards?
This is why I don't feel like he can count anymore. Now Wade is the most heinous villain in the film itself, don't get me wrong. Terry is just following his orders and even regrets some of his actions, and Frank only has two scenes with barely any character. However, as far as thriller villains go, I hate to say it but he's pretty standard. He has only killed one person on screen. We know he may have shot the guard (MAY have it could have been Frank or Terry), and as for Frank, he was a criminal and while it is implied that he forced Terry to do it, well here is how it's implied:
Gail: So Terry you killed Frank? Or did Wade make you do it?
Terry: SHUT UP!
I'll let you decide if that's good enough. We know Frank's dead even though we never see it we just don't fully know who. All I'm saying is the standards are particularly high for thriller villains. You at most have to be a serial killer, a rapist, or a terrorist mastermind with a dozen body counts and I don't know if I'm exaggerating, but Wade barely meets that criteria there's just one confirmed killing of his and the rest are offscreen and not entirely confirmed to be his. I'm just saying he could have done more with his resources but is in the end just a typical PG-13 thriller villain imo. Overall he's just a dick with a gun. Again I will let you guys decide. Also while he does decide to kill them all eventually, that's only after Tom tries to trap them. For all we know he could have let them go had he got what he wanted. But again I'll let you guys decide.
Conclusion? I say Cut.
Edited by zcooper95 on Feb 23rd 2022 at 7:43:19 AM