During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
tfw they want me to do "legwork" on comics I've literally already read
Antonio's writeup:
Lily's Well: Antonio aka Papa is Lily's abusive father, who murdered his wife at one point in the past and drove Lily away. After Lily made it clear that she will not come back, Antonio decided to create numerous clones of Lily, each of whom he tested on obedience by leaving them alone in the cabin and telling them not to go outside. When each clone left the house and explored the forest, Antonio arranged for them to die in many horrific ways, like being devoured by monsters, having her drown, fall to her death several times, get her blood sucked out by a dangerous plant and ec. At some points suffocating one clone with a pillow and shooting two in the head, when they found the truth behind their origin, Antonio gleefully revealed his intention of creating a "good girl", who will obey his every order, by transferring some parts of memories of each killed clone to a new one, until she will "learn to listen to papa".
I think that can be inferred Ordeaux. If they happen to take something someone already knows and a ban evader wants to provide the refresher: I say take it and put your name on it.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Gudis. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Natsuki's dad.
Astrogha, Abe, Antonio and Gudis
Edmun, Moriarty and Father
Not voting on Mike or Bonnie until RK's stuff gets acknowledged.
Okay, I mentioned this to Lighty earlier, but should we be so quick to do these reassessments? I'm not saying ban a character just because a ban evader did them, but it seems like less of a pain to just let the cuts stand until somebody gets to them organically.
to Antonio and Gudis.
Goku Black
At least for Firament. Scraggle has read it so can do the ep quick..
I do agree we shouldn't be actually researching these guys if we're not familiar with them
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So where will Gudis go on the page?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Top of Heisei universes.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Like so?
- Gudis
World of Heisei Ultraseven
- Ultraseven X's "DIAMOND "S"": Peginera ("Parasitic Space Creature") is one of the worst alien invaders ever investigated by DEUS. Desiring to adapt to Earth's atmosphere with a new body that would allow it to conquer the planet, Peginera splits its own cells into countless parasites and takes over the entire staff of Nano Cybertech, tainting their most popular product with its cells to infect thousands more, even children. Those who refused to submit to the Hive Mind have their bodies turned into mummified husks, with Peginera itself coldly seeing this horrible demise as a form of punishment. A sadistic, cruel being that managed to stand out in one of the darkest installments of the franchise, Peginera wasted no time in causing destruction once it finally got a body.
Sure to Gudis.
mu
Well, I'm awake now. Any thoughts on Korvac?
mu
and i'm weak to natsuki's father
I think it's a case of quality over quantity.
Showtime!
I think Korvac is worth an EP
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
First Firmament.
Antonio.
Gudis.
No to the Dad. I just don't think one rape victim - even an incestous one - is a quality over quantity thing. I think we previously cut other candidates with just that to their name.
Edited by Beast on Jan 31st 2022 at 7:18:46 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Le Tenia comes to mind.
One rape will almost always not be enough, unless it's of a child, and even then if that's the only crime it's tricky.
Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2022 at 10:33:18 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Okay, on this note... been planning this for a while, but "The Bastard" from 35mm: A Musical Exhibition, one of my own candidates... should probably be going. He's in one of the best songs from the show and his treatment of his wife is fucking horrid, between beating her, raping her, mocking her, possibly killing her, and even screaming at her ghost that nobody ever loved her, but I can't say he makes heinousness.
Honestly, he barely makes the bar even with no competition, but something I fucked up on in the initial EP? While it's an anthology and therefore everything's technically not in the same universe, holy fuck is he outdone by one candidate. Sara Berry from the album's final song, "The Ballad of Sara Berry," is a flat-out Serial Killer who graphically and creatively murders a number of other teenagers because she couldn't be prom queen. Now, Sara is the farthest thing from a keeper— the show makes a point of her being a Tragic Villain, a legitimately mentally ill girl who snapped under Abusive Parents and ends the song hallucinating her dream life as she's shipped to a mental hospital— but she still adds to the standard and I don't think "The Bastard" stacks up.
So yeah, he's one I goofed on when I proposed and probably a cut.
mu
well, the victim is a child and was previously abused (even having marks as an on-screen effect) isn't much, but it's barely enough in my opinion.
Edited by Demonlordbelial on Jan 31st 2022 at 12:43:06 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Hmm, yeah, even besides the competition, I'm not sure he meets baseline.
Edited by ACW on Jan 31st 2022 at 10:42:03 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
The unnamed father (weird coincidence there) from Et je prendrai tout ce qu'il y a à prendre also only had one victim, but it being a novel means there's much more depth on his onscreen crimes. My Little Goat is a 10 minute short film, and while it's definitely got actual artistic value in a way those short-ass Nosleep stories don't, it can't go into the depth needed to get a single-victim CM up
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Cut the Bastard. Just a mere Jerkass.
Edited by PurpleEyedGuma on Jan 31st 2022 at 10:46:24 AM
Also yes to cutting the Bastard.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
And a cut.
Quick EP, too, from Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, I think there's a guy I missed:
Who is Jack Barts?
Initially the archenemy of Abraham Lincoln, Barts is a wealthy vampire in service to the vampire progenitor Adam. A dapper seeming fellow with a nasty demeanor, Barts i in fact the occupier of a nasty niche in the vampire hierarchy: he supplies the 'crop' to the south, purchasing slaves to be shipped to be devoured by Adam and his brood....and as the opening reveals, he does this in large numbers. Or he simply has free men, women and children abducted, since nobody really cares so much.
the Lincolns work for Barts thanks to a sizable debt. When a little boy is taken by Barts' hunters and savagely beaten, Abe steps in, prompting his father to knock Barts' overseer out. Barts icily dismisses the Lincolns from employment and demands Thomas pay his debt with interest. Thomas tells him to go to hell and Barts takes his debt another way: by attacking Nancy Lincoln that night, draining her blood and condemning her to a slow, wasting agony by sickness.
Abe never forgets and grows up seeking vengeance...Adam briefly stops down with his sister Vadoma, where we also learn Barts is a prolific serial killer of women, and he's sloppy enough that Adam is sick of cleaning up his messes, Barts wheedling to try to explain himself to Adam, who tells him to "send a fresh crop down south". Lincoln's attempt to kill Barts fails, though he blinds him with a gunshot and is barely saved by one Henry Sturges, secretly a vampire himself who sets Lincoln to hunting...
When Lincoln falls in love with Mary Todd, Barts centers on her, just before Abe goes after him. Barts makes a game of it in a stampede of horses, laughing for Lincoln to "catch me before I get to Mary!" In the ensuing battle, Lincoln defeats Barts who brags the vampires can't be stopped, just before Lincoln finishes him.
Mitigating issues?
For a Disc-One Final Boss, Barts is worse than any vampire save for Adam himself. He's a cringing, worthless little rat, but he's also so prolific a killer that Adam literally has to jaunt up north just to clean up after him while Barts is desperately trying to explain he couldn't help himself. And the slavery aspect is a unique, nasty side for the vamps, most of whom are independent killers, while Barts is kidapping people to be sold into slavery, or rather to serve as vamp chow...even kids.
Setting aside what he does to the Lincolns, I think we have a decent case. No care for Adam, either and he clearly just serves him out of fear. When Adam leaves, Barts is shown to mock him behind his back, something he'd never dare do to Adam's face.
Conclusion?
I'd say a yes.
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 31st 2022 at 8:05:22 AM
Barts.
Sometimes I wonder if these ban evaders want to be caught on purpose so that we go through the legwork of taking a look at their candidates.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes