During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
lolipop and voice
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Do we see the Voice's past crimes in flashback? If so, yes.
Yes to Lou.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
to Voice in the Darkness.
Yes to Lou and Voice in the Darkness
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 6th 2021 at 4:59:16 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I managed to trim the Asset's entry:
- The Asset, Dewey's chief henchman, is first seen during the chase scene in Athens, where he murders several bystanders just to set up a sniper nest with which to ambush Bourne and Nicky. The Asset later derails Heather Lee's attempt to make contact with Bourne by murdering his fellow CIA operatives sent to monitor the meeting, callously disregarding the fact that they are his comrades and that they have nothing to do with his beef with Bourne. Finally, after failing in his attempt to assassinate Kalloor and Lee in Vegas, the Asset murders a LVMP SWAT officer, hijacks his SWAT truck, and charges it straight into a traffic full of civilian cars just to put a few yards of distance from Bourne. In the climactic fight with Bourne, the Asset denounces Bourne as "a traitor, always has been a traitor," even though he's the one who railroaded Bourne into the CIA by using a car bomb to kill Bourne's father, a loyal CIA employee, and attributing it to a terrorist organization.
to Lollipop Lou.
Showtime!
to the voice and Lou
The rewrite for The Asset looks good.
I miss the parts about him being a hypocrite though and then sticking around in Athens just to kill Nicky out of spite.
So I’m looking at the Former Complete Monsters sandbox and I’m a little confused as to the entry on Eli Raphelson. The stated reason for his cut is that he loved his son. I think there is a measure of confusion here; the one with the dead son is Walker (James Woods), not Raphelson. Raphelson’s only mentioned relatives are a wife and a nephew whom Cale saved while serving overseas. Neither appear at any point in the film.
Edited by k410ren on Mar 6th 2021 at 9:58:00 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
@k4 It was decided because Cale got his job from Raphelson because he saved his son’s life that that was a redeeming quality.
Also, oh my God. How did I forget Raphelson?
That said, I haven’t seen the movie in years even though I’ve wanted to rewatch it.
Also, while it isn’t just for spite, Dewey and The Asset did also kill Nicky as a means of trying to get to Bourne too, but I think they just settled for her because they couldn’t get him.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 6th 2021 at 7:01:44 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
The Voice and Lollipop Chainsaw.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Voice and Lollipop
Yes to the Voice in the Darkness and Lou.
@k410: Yes, that was my mistake; I should have put what future edited the cut reason to.
Voice and Lou
@Ravok no objections at all.
Edited by nwotyzal on Mar 6th 2021 at 7:31:38 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was gonna say: Did we get that wrong?
I guess not though.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for "Lollipop" Lou Peraino.
to the Voice and Lou.
Voice in the Darkness.
Lou.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I ask again: Do we see the Voice's crimes in flashbacks or something to establish a pattern?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@ACW
Sorry for not seeing your question earlier but I was busy.
You seem to think that the only reason why I am proposing the Voice is because it has destroyed countless civilizations in the past but this is not true. The other reason why I am proposing it is its personal cruelty to those it has converted. When the Voice converts someone, it slowly drains their psionic energy over a long period of time and they eventually die. And when Xy'tal is converted we see that the victims of conversion realize on some level what is happening but they are unable to change anything (unless they have an exceptionally strong resistance) which makes it even worse. We also see with Xy'tal that when its victims resist the conversion, the Voice engulfs their bodies in black flames to torture them. The Voice does this to 25 Terran within the story and attempts to do it to the Protoss as well. And we see all of these things on screen.
As for your question, we don't see its past crimes in flashbacks. However, there is enough to suggest that once the Voice has been freed, it will resume its genocidal tendencies. The prologue of the story outright states that if the Voice wins, the whole Koprulu sector will spiral into madness. The Protoss also find a blood-drawn graffiti which states "All will speak in one voice or be forever silent." This means that the Voice wants to convert every single being into a loyal servant or kill them. When the Voice speaks to the Protoss it wants them to be converted and be its "honored" harbingers for its return. And at the end we have Xy'tal who literally sacrifices himself to prevent the creature from getting free because everybody knows that this would mean the doom of everyone. Aside from that, the Voice shows clear contempt for all mortal races (remember that the civilizations it has destroyed are also mortal races) and hates the Xel'Naga for creating life in the universe which would suggest that this is the reason for its past crimes.
Aside from that, we know that the reason why the Voice is imprisoned in the first place is because of his crimes in the past and the whole story is how it wants to free itself. So, this is not the same case as Professor Rattigan where he has drowned widows and orphans but it has no bearing to the present because in this case the annihilation of entire civilizations has directly led to the imprisonment of the Voice.
Edited by WatTambor on Mar 6th 2021 at 9:36:17 AM
The Voice sounds like it counts unless some side material make it more apparent that it's Made of Evil. Yes to Lou as well!
wait, I got Raphelson there...is there anything suggesting he cared for that family? If not, there's been a grievous error.
Yes to Lou and the Voice, too.
Goku Black
I don't remember Raphelson having a son. What was the actual issue. I know it was something.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Woagh
Sure to The Voice.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Welcome to the thread, Rayn.
I'm fine with the Voice. If its backstory isn't really being shed on, I see nothing morally compromising in that line.
Lemme help move us along a bit:
What's the setting?
Who's the black private dick that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
Shaft...
You're damn right!
Shaft is the king of Blaxploitation, played recognizably by Richard Roundtree (with his kids and grandkid being played by Samuel L. Jackson and Jessie Usher respectively—Roundtree has faithfully appeared in every film made since the 1970s). We got a keeper from the series a while ago, from Shaft in Africa. I got another from a Dynamite Comics run (Shaft: Imitation of Life) and that's Lou Peraino, or "Lollipop Lou."
Who is Lou? What has he done?
Lollipop Lou is a candy-sucking mob boss with a hair trigger and a proclivity to use the word "fuck" the way most others would use a comma, Lou is also a total sociopath running an extreme porno operation. Using an old sausage factory (snrk) for his operations, Lou deals in the most extreme shit you can imagine and beyond that. Not all of Lou's "stars" are willing; many of them are young men and women Lou has gotten hopelessly addicted to hard drugs and turned into sex slaves to be raped through every hole they have and degraded in every way imaginable. And, of course, Lou also happily runs snuff porn on the side, gleefully espousing some people will pay for the most depraved shit out there and he's only too happy to sell.
When some folks try and make a Blaxploitation flick of their own (it takes place in the 70s, it's totally normal) they make the unwise idea of lending from Lou. When they don't pay up in time, Lou kidnaps their lead actor and ransoms him. When Shaft gets onto the scene with the ransom money, he sees Lou has the actor about to be gang-raped by a bunch of people dressed up in Klansmen suits so Lou can sell the resultant video to some mega-racists. He gleefully decides to have Shaft included in the video for "double the fun" and even decides he'll graduate to snuff for them—even though he's been paid the ransom money—which finally results in Shaft having enough with his shit and blowing him away with a machine gun.
Any mitigating factors?
Absolutely nothing. Whether it's heinousness or redeeming qualities, both are laughably non-issues with this guy.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 6th 2021 at 6:46:05 AM