During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
No to Brom. I have just seen both of them.
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Goku Black
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Brom
Sounds standard for a fantasy villain conqueror.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ganesh and Set
To Brom
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 9th 2020 at 7:19:09 AM
to Brom.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's a link to my (non-existent) troper page bud.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Back to Claudia. This reminds me for Furuta from Tokyo Ghoul and his crush on Rize, especially his death. Furuta's last scene is him fantasizing with a peaceful.happy life along her...after he basically did everything to made Rize's miserable.
Mind.you, Furuta is one of those.examples we.decided Freudian Excuse Was No Excuse given how godawful his life was but he answered to it by being as cruel as.possible
Edited by KazuyaProta on Apr 9th 2020 at 12:46:24 PM
Watch me destroying my country
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Whoops. Here is 43, and here is Georgie.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 9th 2020 at 10:40:40 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Wild Child
Watched that Fanscription yesterday. to Brom.
Gentle Laborer
Leaning cut on Claudia.
Also, Kaz, you literally said she was an "Easy " and that we had nothing to worry about, but now you're claiming you "left it to the thread"?
Don't really agree with the various comparisons that kept getting drawn here, Furuta wanted his sister as a rape toy and gave her to a mad scientist to cripple and experiment on and his final moments just show him having complete control over her. By contrast Claudia spends her final fight bemoaning having nothing, accepts her arrest and seems so broken up by her defeat I think the manga indicates she's to be given more sympathy than is being prescribed. To cover off another case before someone tries using it, Acnolgia might be a CM by mistake but everything still falls into place with the mad Blood Knight that he came across as and the clearest read of his final moments is being happy to die in combat against Natsu. Any argument attempted with the finding of the dead girl's ribbon is shattered by his explicit reaction to it in the film showing the scene.
Hmmmm...
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
No one is trying to beat you down but it is questionable there's suddenly a discrepancy between the effort post's stated conclusion and your current claim of how you left it for others to decide.
Edited by 43110 on Apr 9th 2020 at 1:52:54 PM
Goku Black
Good question ?
Could we have further explanation on that?
Edit: ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
. Weird that came as I was typing this.
Edited by miraculous on Apr 9th 2020 at 10:48:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
To be fair everyone makes mistakes, people need to just learn from them. I personally wouldn't be too hard on Kaz here.
The part about using their sister as a toy is why I supported such candidates as King Deucalion. Brings back memories.
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
So...I can sort of see both sides on Claudia, for one her motive alone if her actions unintentionally hurt her family and that is why she turned evil, that'd be D Qing Never My Fault or no. But instead it seems to be less about her family itself and more that she just wishes she had family or friends.
But the thing about her accepting her punishment towards the end sounds like a different story.
I'll...lean cut, if barely.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
So here're my final batch:
- The Most Assassinated Woman in the World (2018): Jean De Lancry is a Serial Killer who murders women and sells their corpses to the Grand Guignol theatre for the special effects. Having tried to rape the actress Paula Maxa in the past before raping and killing her sister Aimée, Jean regularly sends her death treats and has her perform a scene based on her tragedy. After trying to kill Paula, Jean successfully escapes justice and continues to murder women who resemble the actress.
- Elfes et Nains (at the end of the Elves tree after General Lp'hen):
- Alyana and The Taste of Death: The Haruspex, real name Radabust, is a mage who seeks to become the most powerful being in Aran. Having turned into a half fairy monster, Radabust gave birth to many children he trained and brainwashed to make them obedient. Manipulating people with false prophecies over the centuries, he set a plan to release and control the primordial Scourges. The Harsupex commisioned alchemists with the creation of a reliquary before killing them, caused the Sourgemother and her offspring to capture the whites elves, ordered the death of Queen Tenashep in front of her daughter Alyana and callously releases the Scourges who wreck havoc in the world. Repeatedly attempting to corrupt Alyana's mind, he sents the Scourges against the White Elves Island while he conquers Elsemur killing its guardians and threatening to destroy it completely. He then painfully drain his ally Orbotesh out of his life before attempting to do the same to Alyana.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Apr 9th 2020 at 8:21:52 PM
What's the work?
Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future is a TV show from the 80's set in a post-apocalyptic future where machines have revolted against humans. Now ruling the world, the machines are systematically "digitizing" (explained in the "Heinous Standard" section) humans, with the intent of converting everyone to machines. However, there are resistance groups opposing the machines, one of which is Captain Jonathan Power and his crew. My candidates are the rulers of the machines, Lord Dread and his supercomputer OverMind.
Who are they? What do they do?
By 2132 in this show's world, wars were fought with machines instead of humans, and Dr. Stuart Gordon Power (Captain Power's father) decided to put a stop to it with a group of his fellow scientists. To this end, they worked on OverMind to take over the robots' minds and have them stop fighting. However, one of the scientists, Dr. Lyman Taggart, plugged himself into OverMind out of impatience, which caused it to become fully operational. By this point, Taggart had came to the conclusion that machines deserved to rule, and OverMind happened to share that belief.
With OverMind, Taggart took control of the robots and had them wage war on humanity. When Stuart confronted him, Taggart asked him to join him in ruling Earth together, but Stuart refused. In retaliation, Taggart tried to digitize Stuart's son, but Stuart fought with Taggart, giving his son time to escape. Stuart eventually died, but not before severely injuring Taggart. OverMind saved Taggart's life by turning him into a cyborg, and Taggart, now calling himself Lord Dread, officially became the leader of the machines along with OverMind. By 2147, the year the show takes place in, humanity has been almost entirely killed off by the forces of Lord Dread and OverMind, with some humans being indocrinated into a Hitler Youth-esque group known as the "Dread Youth" to carry out the machines' will.
Lord Dread and OverMind don't really do much worth mentioning in the earlier episodes, although in episode 5, Lord Dread coerces a blind artist into creating a portrait of a perfect robot-controlled society by threatening to kill her friends. Throughout the series, though, the heroes learn that Lord Dread is plotting "Project New Order" to finally bring about his perfect world. There are four stages to the project: Styx, which will involve releasing a toxin to drive many people insane, Charon, which will involve creating more powerful robots, Icarus, which will digitize large portions of humanity, and Prometheus, which will scorch the Earth's surface. Eventually, in the two-parter "New Order", Captain Power and his team manage to put an end to Project New Order once and for all.
In retaliation, Lord Dread decides to just slaughter all remaining humans, with the heroes fighting valiantly to save everyone they can. In the same episode where this happens, Lord Dread realizes that OverMind has been spying on him, and has the spy killed, passing it off as an accident. The next and final episode has Lord Dread lure the resistance into a trap, with only one member guarding the base. Fortunately, the resistance manages to escape the trap, and the member at the base manages to defeat the attacking robots, sacrificing herself in the process.
Heinous standard?
Lord Dread and OverMind are responsible for the post-apocalyptic setting and pretty much everything else that happens in the series. No one even comes close to them. Lord Dread does come up with a lot of the plans, but OverMind made the decision to save and augment him, making it responsible for a lot of what Dread does. OverMind also seems to be on fairly equal footing with Dread despite this, sometimes calling him out when he displays too much emotion.
As for digitizing, it is when a human is zapped inside OverMind's virtual environment. It is stated to be an extremely painful process at least once, with people's atoms expanding and contracting.
Mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?
No for both of them. There is no indication that OverMind lacks agency, and if Dread had any redeeming qualities in the past, it is clear they are long gone. Dread and OverMind also show no care for any individual machines.
Conclusion?
I'd say yes to both of them.
Yes to the subtly named bad guys ruling over a police state.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read it later, but Overmind was voiced by Tedd "Hammer" Dillon; Dread was played by David "Magneto" Hemblen.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lord Dread and OverMind
Brom
Cut Claudia
—signature not found—
Goku Black
Lord Dread and Over Mind
Abstaining on Brom but to Dread and Overmind. I’m assuming they’ll both share a write up?
Gentle Laborer
to OverMind and Dread.
I'll take the opportunity to reevaluate one of my own candidates; Years ago I proposed Kinski's Jack the Ripper, Dennis Orloff, it's a rare piece of forgotten media so I had to find another copy. The narrative tries to portray him as a troubled figure suffering from Mommy Issues, except he's way too brutal and sociopathic (he's a rapist) to be called a Woobie, but at the same time, his mind is still living the abuse and trauma at the hands of his mother, and that's why projecting his hatred is his way of dealing with the unpleasant childhood memories.
I'm honestly leaning cut, he's an evil prick, but still a PTSD victim.
No to Brom. Hardly sounds worse than Hans in canon.