Oftentimes here in Trope Talk, we get questions about whether or not a given trope is tropeworthy enough, or is an example of the kind of non-tropes discussed in People Sit on Chairs. These threads are extremely frequent, and per discussion
in the TRS meta thread, this megathread was created.
This will be a centralized place to ask: is this article I found tropeworthy? Does it convey meaning or is it used to tell the story, or is it just something that happens to exist in a work? Ask here, and hopefully you will get the answers you need.
Remember, something that is "(people sit on) chairs" means it's happenstance or conveys no meaning. Something that also happens in real life, is common, is rare, or seems minor is not the same as being chairs.
As an additional note, keep this in mind when bringing tropes in, as noted by amathieu13:
Edited by Tabs on Oct 29th 2023 at 10:08:41 AM
@TMH-Sir-Iron-Vomit and regarding Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me - yes, I know it's late for the show, but I was out and away.
Still: the trope by itself is/was intended to be a counterpoint to Shields Are Useless. The actual issue is how laconic is worder, and how trope decay happened, effectively making it a "there is a shield in it", missing the "and it's super-effective" part. So - badly needed clean up, rather than cutting the trope. I also find this trope most applied in context of gaming, where it DOES routinely play up the dualistic format with Shields Are Useless, doesn't really matter if its vidya or tabletop stuff.
Also, whoever changed the image for the trope should be given shit over it, as the old one was far more evocative of what the trope is about.
The clown of STEEL
What do you mean by counterpoint?
Shields being used in context where we expect them to be useless?
Speaking of shields, does Shield-Bearing Mook have any meaning beyond "enemy character having a shield", and is that tropeworthy as its own trope? We already have a number of other shield-related tropes.
Edited by Adept on Apr 24th 2024 at 8:54:30 PM
the Retromancer
It's a specific videogame template of an enemy unit that can't be harmed directly (would require breaking the shield or attacking from behind). If examples are simply "shield-wielding Mooks" then they probably miss the point.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The current image for Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me was chosen in this thread.
As intended, Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me is in the same breed as Katanas Are Just Better, Revolvers Are Just Better etc., often providing straight-out improbable protection. Furthermore, it got tied with Shields Are Useless as a pair, where one is about super-effective shields, while other is about impossibly bad shields. Then there is further application as gameplay mechanics to it. Either way, the trope by itself isn't useless. It just decayed badly and people handling fixing it only made it worse in the process (seriously, that image picking is beyond terrible). So less of chairs and more of massive misuse.
tl;dr This trope is "shields are too good to be true", rather than "there is a shield in it"
The clown of STEEL
Wow, I didn't know that.
We should bring Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me to the Repair Shop one day.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Any evidence? The page just talks about, well... the history and use of shields.
... practical application of this trope that goes beyond "there is a shield in it"? Then again, the most contexts I read and saw it in were gaming pages, so figures.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean, application is great and all but changes nothing about how the trope is actually defined. A trope for absurdly durable shields would be tropeworthy- but it isn't this one.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The clown of STEEL
Or a trope for very, very, very, very, very big shields.
Oo oo ah ah
the Retromancer
It was already agreed that Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me needs a wick check and it's still pending. What other shield tropes could be made is up for TLP and doesn't rely on Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me.
The earliest version of the page is really more about "shields exist". Though it also seems to be about characters who use only a shield without any offensive weapon (and possibly but not necessarily using the shield itself offensively).
In 2011 this paragraph has been added, that make this trope to be more about super effective shields in fiction:
It was deleted in 2016 seemingly during a Shields Are Useless rewrite.
Edit: ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by kundoo on Apr 25th 2024 at 4:10:46 AM
You didn't see anything.
@#1182: The difference is that there is nothing to compare to. Katanas Are Just Better is when katanas are portrayed as superior to other swords, and similarly Revolvers Are Just Better is when revolvers are portrayed as superior to other guns, or at least other handguns. With shields, there is nothing to compare to.
Edited by petersohn on Apr 25th 2024 at 4:23:54 PM
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
Except, of course, Shields Are Useless
That's not the same category. In one, you say, for example, that a katana is better than a longsword. In the other, you say that using a shield is better than... what? Not using a shield? One is a tropeworthy concept, the other is not.
Or taking it from another angle. There is a trope that Police Are Useless. But we don't have a trope called Police Catches Criminals, because that's not tropeworthy. We have specific tropes of how police catches criminals, for example Cowboy Cop. Similarly, there are shield-related tropes of how a shield is used such as Shield Bash. But a shield being useful in general is not tropeworthy.
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to us.
the Retromancer
The reply means comparing a shield to some non-shield (Proper Shields Are Better), not to another trope.
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 25th 2024 at 6:32:57 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
The clown of STEEL
If we want to fix Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me, one way would be seemingly normal shields being used in modern settings. In that way, it can be compared to The Straight and Arrow Path, which also is about a certain antique weapon turning up effective in modern settings.
Maybe we could rename it "Improbable Shield Effectiveness".
Oo oo ah ah
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The title and definition idea don't seem correlated
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
Is this thread suitable for this question, actually? The "how would we fix this" normally goes to new Trope Talk or Trope Repair Shop threads.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I think we've discussed these types of things here before, though it is a tad off-topic.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Shields in modern settings would be a completely different trope, as this one is about shields in general. It might be a good idea to have that trope if we don't already have one, but not to turn Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me into one.
My understanding was that Katanas Are Just Better and Revolvers Are Just Better are Tropes In Aggregate: What's tropeworthy is that these weapons are disproportionately used in fiction because they're considered "cool".
The oldest copy and original YKTTW of Luckily, My Shield Will Protect Me both seem to be "shields exist", and it went through two TRS threads (both with the paragraph mentioned @1189 being part of the description at the time) that had concerns about being PSOC but didn't do anything with it (and even those defending it mentioned it falling under Weapon Of Choice, which is a green link now for a reason).
Edited by MorganWick on Apr 26th 2024 at 12:53:13 PM
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 23rd 2024 at 2:42:23 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup