Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
The wifi here sucks
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I don't think its fair to hold that trope against him when the film itself doesn't ever draw attention to it.
Reiterating my question from last page.
Not familiar enough with Elden Ring, other than the “maidenless” guy. But if you think there’s someone who counts, feel free to EP them
Edited by Snowy66 on May 3rd 2023 at 5:54:04 AM
I can only think of one character off the top of my mind who could probably count, and even then I'm not really confident enough to write a full-on EP. Most of the other big players are either completely out of it by the time of the present or have some form of crime under their belt that arguably pushes them over the edge for me.
Edited by echiniccoolies on May 3rd 2023 at 8:38:13 AM
A QUINCY
Kira'na from BoBoiBoy Galaxy season 2
Who is she ?
- Kira'na is Arc Villain of BoBoiBoy Galaxy season 2 "Gur'latan Arc". Biological granddaughter of Satriantar, one of BoBoiBoy Elemental Powers predecessor and Gur'latan Empress 100 years ago, and also Kaizo and Fang foster sister. Furious of TAPOPS late to save her father and homeplanet from Retak'ka rampage and determine to continue her family legacy as new empress of Gur'latan to save her homeplanet, Kira'na willingly to do everything with her power to obtain Thunderstorm power from BoBoiBoy.
What makes her a candidate ?
- She perfectly set up her plan to bait BoBoiBoy, his allies and TAPOPS to Gu'latan by invite them to TAPOPS Grand-meeting. She hire Mr.Pato, an evil robot maker to make perfect copy robot of Satriantar and make it to cause a rampage during meeting to bait the titular hero to save the others.
- She pretend to be BoBoiBoy helper by over him a special sword to destroy Robot Satriantar. Once BoBoiBoy succeed to destroy the robot, the sword violently absorb his Thunderstorm power and Kira'na quickly obtain it before anyone could get the sword.
- She injure Kaizo by hire a professional sniper and then exploit his weakness of being Aloof Big Brother for Fang which cause the Legendary Space Rebel unable to have proper fight. Then she betray Mr.Pato and take his Keybot since she no longer need him in next plan to invade the Earth.
- She exploit BoBoiBoy insecurity of being Galactic Superhero by claiming that BoBoiBoy willingly sacrifice his own friends for defeat his opponent and will ended same fate like her father murderer if he can't handle all his Elemental Powers. Her statement successfully cause BoBoiBoy questioning his future as Elemental Powers holder and fear that he will ended the same fate like Retak'ka if he continue to use third tier form.
- She intend to invade a five Elemental Powers holders homeplanet because she feel that if anyone agree with her intention, any bad guys who as evil as Retak'ka will never endanger their live.
Is Kira'na magnificent?
- She proved very dangerous not only in battle but in negotiation and manipulation. Kira'na already trained since childhood and make her as dangerous as the previous Magnificent Bastard from original series, Kaizo. As I mention in above, She even manage to exploit the titular Kid Hero insecurity by bringing his evil predecessor as an example of what happened if he can't handle his power. This is cause trigger BoBoiBoy's trauma of using third tier form like Tempest form. And she is twice almost succeed to defeat him.
How bastard she is ? How des she avoid being too bastardly ?
- In order to gain Thunderstorm power so she can continue her family legacy as Satriantar dan Gur'latan Empress, she perfectly willingly to manipulate and injure her ally like Mr.Pato, her foster brothers, BoBoiBoy and his gang.
- However, despite all of her villainous action, she doing this because out-of-grief and angry over her father death at Retak'ka hands due to TAPOPS are late to save her homeplanet. Before his death, Kul'dar (her father) told to her to keep living on and continue their family legacy with any means for the safety of their citizen. Once she realized that she can't control her power and almost endanger her citizen, she tearfully accepted BoBoiBoy help to take the Thunderstorm Power before she could destroy everything. Proved that all she done never be selfish and she just misguided by anger and grief.
Final Verdict?
- I think she deserve it but still up to you guys hehehe ^^
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Kira look better than anyone I proposed today (not that I'm still not hoping they get votes) so
Yes to Mephisto, Davis and Grey, and Kira. It's just been a slow day. I'll pick back up with Star Wars stuff Friday.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Late to Potolsky. ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Percy Weasley.
Looking forward to it.
Speaking of Star Wars, I will give Caaldra a try in two days but am less sure Xaverri would make it.
Kira’na seems like a yes.
Happy Star Wars Day, all!
Yes to Kir'na and uh I forgot I put Shu up years ago, whoops.
But:
- Hard Boiled: Mad Dog is the enforcer of Johnny Wong and the real mastermind behind his boss's rise to power. An intelligent and ruthless man, Mad Dog orchestrates the coup against Uncle Hoi and is able to deceive the cops to get near and murder the informant Foxy. Planning to use the hospital as a staging ground for the final battle, Mad Dog plans to let the hostages go but is horrified when Johnny Wong plans to murder them all. Disgusted as his boss's lack of honor, Mad Dog finally turns on his employer and only fails to kill him due to running out of bullets.
- Tenchu: Lady Kagami is the leader of Lord Toda's shinobi. Disgusted with how the world treats ninja, Kagami goes behind her master's back to build up an army and empire of her own. Manipulating the war between Toda and Gohda, Kagami takes advantage of Toda's defeat to murder him and declare the birth of the Burning Dawn. Convincing the amnesiac ninja Tatsumaru he is her loyal subordinate, Kagami slowly begins to fall in love with him for real. Finally masterminding an attack on Gohda's fleet, Kagami attempts to seize control of Japan itself.
Edited by Lightysnake on May 4th 2023 at 6:46:09 AM
Goku Black
Were uh missing a couple from you. Lu Bu from Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty and Lady kagami from Tenchu
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Kira'na.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Kira'na
While I'm not done with my Ace Attorney plays, I still wanna post Shelly's writeup.
- Farewell, My Turnabout: Shelly de Killer is an international assassin who mixes classy professionalism with a sinister edge. Upholding a moral code that strongly emphasizes trust between him and his clients to ensure their safety and his eluding of the law, Shelly is hired by actor Matt Engarde to kill his rival Juan Corrida, with Shelly kidnapping Maya Fey to force her friend Phoenix Wright to acquit Engarde in return for Maya’s life. Detaining prosecutor Franziska von Karma by shooting her in the arm in order to make the trial easier for Phoenix, Shelly eventually reveals himself on the final day of the trial by sneaking up behind the judge and holding him at gunpoint in order to claim Engarde’s assistant Adrian Andrews of being his client so she can take the fall. Discovering Engarde’s plan to betray him, Shelly promises to hunt down Engarde for the rest of his life should he be declared not guilty, making his elegant leave afterwards.
Lies and Violence!
Kira'na.
What's the work?
A Practical Guide to Evil is the single greatest piece of fiction I have ever read, and no, I will not shut up about it. Set in a world where good and evil are objective aspects of reality, a young orphan from the Good Kingdom of Callow named Catherine Foundling, as orphans are wont to do, finds herself tasked with leading the next generation to ensuring peace and prosperity throughout the lands... on behalf of evil.
I've already pretty thoroughly examined the series for this trope. There might be one more left, who I prematurely dismissed when doing my original reread only to realize my mistake halfway through, but I'm still way too drained from that deep dive to do him now. Who I am doing now is a character from a fanfic!
A Callowan Tale is a very short, one chapter fic set in the far future, when Catherine's exploits have faded into fairy tales and legends. In one of these tales, a "Dark Queen", feared yet respected by all, is looking for a suitable partner, and arranges three trials for her suitors to overcome to prove their worth. Three step forward: a Knight of Callow, a Lord of the East, and a Princess of the West.
Their trials? Survive a volley of arrows from the Queen's Archer, settle a dispute with a neighboring orc tribe, and survive a night in the Queen's bed (because even in myth, everyone knows Cat's horny ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
).
Who is the Warlord?
The leader of the orcs (and heavily implied to Hakram Deadhand, formerly The Dragon to Cat before setting out on his own to claim rule over his people), the Warlord proves to be the undoing of the first two suitors.
First came the Knight, who simply cut his way through the Archer's arrows. Upon confronting the Warlord, he demanded he stop his pillaging. The Warlord challenged him to a duel, and the overconfident Knight accepted. Unfortunately, what he didn't know was that the Warlord's axe was magically enchanted to cut through anything. For all his skill and fancy armor, he was ultimately butter to the orc's blade.
Next came the Lord, who used a magical amulet to deflect the Archer's arrows. He confronted the Warlord under the banner of hospitality, which prevented the Warlord from harming the Lord under threat of dishonor, and demanded he stop his pillaging lest he bring his armies from the East to drown the orcs in a tide of death. The Warlord faked surrender, appeasing the arrogant Lord... until he left their camp, no longer under their hospitality. The Warlord sent a goblin to sneakily steal his amulet in the night and replace it with one bearing a curse, quickly causing the Lord to fall ill and die as he returned to Callow in supposed triumph.
Finally came the Princess, who bribed the Archer into missing her shots. In this final confrontation, what is the Princess' solution to defeating the one who killed all those before her?
Trade negotiations. The only reason they're raiding in the first place is because their trade situation with neighboring polities is shit and unsustainable. The two take a week to hammer out deals for more affordable food imports in exchange for Callowan merchants getting free passage through their land, and the orcs send their own merchants to sell products in Callow with "generous tax rates."
Kind of an anticlimax for your average fairy tale, but right at home with the usual solutions to most problems in the Guide.
Mitigating factors?
Short and sweet. The Warlord is clever and easily tricks the first two to their dooms, but proves to be perfectly reasonable and ends his aggression once his people are given a reliable source of food/income.
In related news, the Guide is getting an officially licensed adaptation from Webtoon later this year (I think, no solid release date yet). I will, of course, be covering it—probably not going to actually propose anyone, the current page is long enough as is and it would likely just be the same information, but you never know. If anyone wants to join in whenever that's out, I'd be open to the help!
Not the Eye
to Kira’na and Warlord
Edited by EmperorGeode on May 4th 2023 at 1:40:22 AM
Goku Black
warlord and Kira'na
Ultimate Moral Compass
Warlord
Yes to Kira'na.
Buzz
There is a candidate Among Us
The Work
AMONG US 3D ANIMATION - IMPOSTOR LIFE #7 is a web animation by Hornstromp 3D. As the title suggests, it is based on Among Us and centers around impostors (at least this video is)
The Candidate
The impostors in this video are Purple and Yellow, and the candidate is Purple.
He is introduced cheerfully interacting with Yellow and his son before venting and going his own way. He returns to kill Blue, popping up from a vent and shooting him before he can expose Yellow as an impostor (he saw Yellow kill Red on cams). A meeting is called, but no one is voted out.
Purple kills Lime offscreen and once again isn't caught, though Cyan is becoming increasingly suspicious of Yellow. After the meeting ends, Purple sabotages the oxygen, and Yellow goes to admin to fix it. He meets Pink there, and as they talk, Purple pops up from a vent and kills her with a knife throw. Cyan, who was her husband, walks in and reports the body, distraught over his loss. He tries to get Yellow voted out, but when the majority vote skip, he decides to avenge his wife by kidnapping Yellow's son and threatening to kill him. The other crewmates try to reason with him, but Cyan stabs Brown and White when they tackle him. As the former collapses, he inadvertently activates the airlock, nearly sending Cyan and Yellow's son into the cold dark vacuum of space. Purple performs a Heroic Sacrifice by jumping across the door, closing the airlock, and pulling Yellow's son back to safety, right before he gets sucked out.
Magnificence
Purple is an ever friendly impostor who is amiable towards Yellow and his son. He also shows scheming that would be expected from an impostor, such as when he shoots Blue from a corner before he can expose his co-impostor, and sabotaging Oxygen to get a kill in admin (and he follows that up by thanking Yellow for the distraction)
He goes out in a dignified manner, performing a Heroic Sacrifice to save Yellow's son before bidding him farewell.
Bastardry
He kills 3 crewmates (Blue, Lime, Pink). However, he cares for Yellow and Yellow's son, as he tries to talk down Cyan when he is holding Yellow's mini-crewmate hostage. Also, when Cyan accuses Yellow of murder, Purple tries to back up his fellow impostor by pointing out that "just because he was there, doesn't mean that he committed the murder"
Final Notes
Yellow doesn't count, as he gets only one kill which is seen by a crewmate, negating the impact of his scheme.
I think this series of web animations would be a good source of Among Us affiliated MB's. The only problem - ironically - is that the crewmates tend to end up becoming Asshole Victims, making their deaths feel more cathartic than anything to be sad about.
Image Pickin' Backlog
Warlord, Purple.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Looking at the number of entries for Ace Attorney... It's at least 8 entries, meeting the recommended requirement for a sub-page. Any limiting factors for this?
Edited by Siegfried1337 on May 4th 2023 at 3:39:35 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Lies and Violence!
The visual novel page would be too short without them. Purple.
RIP Toriyama
Sure to Purple and Kira'na
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
@Melinda Well by the end of the movie he has his badge back, so maybe it is.![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]")
I've gone back and forth on Danny myself for years. I'd be happy to see him get an actual EP so as to finally see where the vote goes in the end.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on May 3rd 2023 at 4:16:52 AM