Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Bye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mills, Isher, Pale man, Scourge, Unicron
Goku Black
scourage and unicron.
Man in the Yellow Hat
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Alright, in that case, to the Novel Pale Man, but not the film one it seems.
Gonna finish reading each EP on the Analyst before making a decision. From what I recall of that ending, he was daring Neo and Trinity to keep fighting and see what happens. That movie admittedly is not the best certainly—and this is coming from someone who really enjoyed the second and third movies too.
Scourge is a STRONG —yes, Peter Dinklage's first—and Unicron is a BIG as well. They can complete with all the film keepers easily and not just Shatter and Dropkick from Bumblebee—who I still believe count overall too and not just for their tier.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I'd say Shatter and Dropkick are perfectly fine since they're only two lonesome Decepticons who attempt to scorch the Earth.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Lies and Violence!
Again, is it okay if I do Pale Lights here today?
Yes to the Pale Man, Scourge, and Unicron.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to the Pale Man, Scourge, and Unicorn.
Edited by Bullman on Jun 23rd 2023 at 9:19:43 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
Novel!Pale Man and TF duo
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Emerald
If it's been two weeks since the release or if your character's been dead for two weeks I've no issues.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
@emerlad: Sure.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
@ Emerald, go for it.
Haven't seen the movie or read the novelization, but based on the EP though, to the Pale Man. Good with it applying to the movie too.
Should Unicron go before Scourge in the tree? I figure he would.
The Last Knight teased Unicron HARD. Cool that we got to still see him show up—even in something that's part of a reboot. If the movie's successful enough, be interesting to see where they go with it next—especially with the teased G.I. Joe crossover.
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is Scourge The Heavy? If so, he should probably go first.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
In that case:
What's the work?
Pale Lights is the second work by the author of A Practical Guide to Evil, set in a "Lovecraftian Renaissance" where the remnants of humanity have taken refuge in a massive, ocean-sized, supernatural cave called Vesper After the End.
Millenia have passed within this eldritch cavern. Empires have risen and fallen, thousands upon thousands of heroic epics and villainous exploits have been put to pen, and all knowledge of the surface world has faded to the vague idea that there was once a bright world before this darkness. Lucifer himself—the Lightbringer, Prince of Lies, Father of Devils, and King of Hell—has been sealed away in the city of Pandemonium, but his devilish children continue to run rampant. Malevolent spirits haunt all throughout Vesper, feasting on souls out of nothing more than sadistic glee. And lesser gods are just as populous as the humans they prey on, making contracts for good or for ill to see themselves rise in power.
The Watch, a company of elite god-killers, keep order in this broken world. Which brings us to our two protagonists, Tristan Abrascal (a street rat seeking revenge on the five responsible for torturing and murdering his father) and Angharad Tredegar (a young noblewoman on the run after her entire family was betrayed and massacred). Seeking refuge after they piss off the wrong people, the pair seek safety by joining the Watch. The quickest method for enrollment? Go to a savage island known as the Dominion of Lost Things and survive horrific trials designed to weed out all weakness, ensuring only the best of the best are ready to ascend to the Watch's elite ranks.
Of course, they're not the only ones going. Aside from various other rogues and criminals seeking refuge with the Watch, there is also a collection of nobles, who seek to survive the first few trials and then duck out to return home with honors and prestige for their accomplishments. Enter the Cerdans.
Who is Augusto Cerdan, the Honorless Cur?
A young noble of the House Cerdan from the city of Sacromonte, Augusto is already a piece of work before joining the trials. Placed in charge of collecting rent on the Cerdans' properties—which have steadily grown to be absurdly high over the years—Augusto is known by many to be willing to forgive late payments... so long as the offenders give him some company for the night. Sacromonte is a bit of a shithole, especially on the streets, so this "choice" isn't much of a choice at all.
Now the House Cerdan, while powerful, is nowhere in the league of the upper nobles of Sacromonte. Adding on to that, Augusto isn't even in the main branch of the family. In such a weak position, he needs all the power he can get, especially when competing with his brother Remund for their inheritance. To get an edge over each other, the brothers shift their lustful desires to the Lady Isabel Ruesta, hoping marriage will see them rise in acclaim. Isabel, of course, wants nothing to do with the two monsters (Augusto being a rapist who engages in Sexual Extortion, Remund torturing his servants, and both generally being kind of assholes); she schemes to rid herself of them by having them follow her to the Watch's trials, hoping they'll get themselves killed trying to outshine one another.
Isabel and the Cerdans end up in Angharad's party for the first part of the trial: a dangerous trek across the island, pursued by ravenous spirits and cultists intent on sacrificing them to their god, the Red Maw. However, while trying to escape the spirits, Augusto quite literally stabs one of his accompanying servants in the back just so he can better climb to safety, abandoning him to be ripped to shreds. Angharad immediately slaps him in the face and challenges him to a duel to the death out of disgust, though smartly opts to put if off until they're all out of danger.
Or maybe not so smartly. While they try to sneak around some cultists, Augusto, knowing he has no chance of killing a master swordswoman, loudly fires off a shot from his gun, immediately alerting the cultists to their location. He quickly books it, abandoning Angharad, Remund, Isabel, and several others to be taken. Fortunately for them, Angharad is still a master swordswoman, and gets most of them to safety. Unfortunately for them, Augusto quickly finds safety with Anghard's rival amongst the trial-takers, Tupoc Xical, who proceeds to protect him throughout the next part of the trial because... uh... honestly not quite sure, he wasn't that useful. Just to piss off Angharad? It would be in character.
Anyway, Augusto eventually ends up falling into a river and impaling himself, with the rest of the trial-takers abandoning him to his doom... at least until he's approached by the Red Maw, who offers him a contract to survive. Augusto agrees, gaining the power to heal his wounds by painfully absorbing the flesh of others. Except the wounds don't stay healed. If he wants to survive, he'll need to keep finding victims to kill and steal flesh from. Contracts like this are heavily restricted by the Watch (in other words, they murder you), but after accidentally running into a warband of the Maw's cultists, Augusto comes up with a plan.
His endgame? Curry favor with the Dominion's various cult-tribes through his contract with their god, then lead them to slaughter every last member of the Watch on the island (along with the surviving trial-takers and the port town of Three Pines, the Watch garrison at the very end of the trial), ensuring there are no survivors to reveal his treachery. From there, he'll sail back to the protection of House Cerdan in Sacromonte, where he can live out his days feasting on flesh to preserve himself, and visit revenge on the family of another noble who insulted him during the trial.
Fortunately for everyone else, Augusto is an idiot, as he holds one of Angharad's companions hostage to try to extract an oath to be left alone by the honor-bound noblewoman. Angharad's entire way of life revolves around word games and skirting around the letter of these kinds of agreements while still maintaining her honor, so it goes about as well as you would expect, and she Exact Words her way out of the oath to easily stab him through the throat. Tristan has the corpse double-tapped just to be safe.
Heinous enough?
In case you didn't get it from the intro above, this work is looking to be very dark. Devils and spirits and gods running rampant, cruel nobles and wars causing immense bloodshed. At the moment, though? That's all background lore, mostly irrelevant to the first book's focus on the Watch's trials. Now, admittedly, the Dominion is its own nest of horrors, but Augusto unquestionably stands out as the most despicable Hate Sink out of everyone on the island, and holds the highest attempted bodycount out of any mortal to appear in person so far.
And even if all that other stuff does come into focus? Augusto has nothing on resources. He's a noble, sure, but a noble from a branch line of a powerful but ultimately lesser house. He has the authority to be in charge of collecting rent on the Cerdans' properties... and that's about it. And even there, he's the absolute worst. Admittedly, I'm not sure how strongly his past as a rapist should be considered, seeing how it's only mentioned once, but during that once, his and Remund's atrocious histories are indicated to be the primary reasons why Isabel seeks to escape marriage with them. Remund's history in particular is brought up a few more times as the main reason why Isabel despises him, but the only reason Augusto's history isn't mentioned more is because he very quickly proves himself an honorless cur. No point in Isabel providing more evidence why he sucks and marriage would be terrible when everyone already hates him.
Even discounting that? On the Dominion, he has no noble backing to call on. A couple of servants, some fancy equipment and other pre-prepared stuff, but otherwise? He's just as much of a murderhobo as Tristan—technically even worse off, since he immediately burns all his bridges and only survives through pathetic cowering. In that position, he comes close to wiping out an entire town and escaping with a monstrous power that requires him to drain people of their very flesh about every day or so. It's a weird case, but methinks he'll stay good.
Mitigating factors?
HAHAHAHAHAHAH no. "Augusto" and "not being the worst" are completely incompatible ideas. He already hates his brother, he's fully willing to sacrifice the lives of faithful servants just to live a little longer, and his relationship with Isabel is entirely centered around lust—on top of, again, being fully willing to sacrifice her to save his own skin.
The closest he gets is trying to claim to Angharad that stabbing his servant in the back was a mercy—they were all going to die if Augusto couldn't move him out of the way, better to knife him before throwing him to the side so he wouldn't have to live through being devoured—but that's clearly bullshit, and then he almost gets all of them captured by cultists (a fate said to potentially be worse than death, depending on what they do to victims). So... yeah, no.
Verdict?
As Angharad puts it herself: he's an honorless cur to the end.
Now, as to other potential keepers:
- The Red Maw itself: Returning villain + possible agency concerns.
- The Fisher: The god Angharad contracted with to avenge her family, in exchange for freeing him from his prison. He's a patient, methodical and charismatic mastermind, but also a sadistic monster who can't wait to go back to butchering people once he's freed. Ongoing villain, so stay tuned.
- Tupoc Xical: The collective Arch-Enemy of the survivors of the trial, who tried to get them all killed by cultists and has a past of kidnapping people for ritual sacrifice; he's only prevented from being the Big Bad of the first book solely because of Augusto's contract with the Maw. Also an ongoing villain, though honestly, I kind of hope he'll be a better fit for MB. He's been very fun so far.
- Cozme Aflor: The Cerdan brothers' bodyguard and one of the five on Tristan's murder list. He was involved in a monstrous operation with higher-ranking Cerdans to force multiple contracts into people, driving them insane; when Tristan went to spy on them once, he found warehouses full of pieces of children, barrels of drained blood, people stitched together... but while it's all horrible, Cozme was just a cog who "ran the guards." His biggest involvement was finding subjects and personally killing Tristan's father once he was driven insane, with none of the sadistic flourishes I'm expecting the rest of the five to have.
Edited by EmeraldEmperor on May 7th 2024 at 2:18:49 PM
Goku Black
augusto
Not the Eye
to Augusto
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Augusto.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
Augusto
to Scourge, Unicron and Augusto
An absolutely joyous to Scourge and Unicron. Fantastic film!
This is the month of "I'm not sure about these guys, but screw it".
What is the Work?
Little Nightmares is an acclaimed video game about a little girl named Six, who is trapped and starving within the Maw, a sea fortress run by the literally monstrous staff that capture, kill and cook children to be fed to equally monstrous guest who gorge themselves on the meat.
Now, the Lady already counts, but I was wondering about the worst of her staff.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
The Twin Chefs a duo of twin brothers who work as the chefs on the Maw. A pair of psychotics with "a love of a violence and a feeling for meat", the Twin Chefs are tasked with butchering and preparing the children sent to them by the Janitor for the guests. Even the guests themselves are not safe, as they too are butchered and prepared for the next batch of guests.
Seeing any escaped children and the nomes scurrying around the kitchen as mere mere vermin, the two have no issues killing them as well, even willing to add "vermin" to the menu by sticking Six in ovens and boiling pots to a horrific death if she is captured.
When Six ends up in their kitchen after escaping and disarming the Janitor, the two continue their trend of exterminating "vermin", relentlessly chasing her whenever they catch sight of her. After a long and tense level, Six is able to escape using meat hooks leading out of the kitchen, leaving them screeching and waving their fists in rage.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
The two do everything together (even go to the bathroom) but I believe this is more their status as The Dividual than care for one another.
Are they bad enough?
They're the worst of the staff on the Maw, being the ones tasked with butchering children and even the guests, and feeding them to the next guests that come aboard the Maw in a horrific cycle.
Add this in with their individual crimes of killing any "vermin" that come into their kitchen and their sadism in general makes them standout.
Final Verdict?
I'll let you guys decide.
I'm a bit hesitant on the Twins. While it's true they cook the kids, it's still the Janitor who sends them there knowing their fate, so he shares a degree of responsibility too. Plus all the guests are willingly eating children too, given they all eat Six on sight. Overall just makes the Twins seem like their niche isn't so unique after all.
Not quite comfortable upvoting them
That is definitely fair. I think the thing that helps them stand out to me is that they enjoy it, while the Janitor has a Punch-Clock Villain feel that it isn't personal and the guest are just gluttony incarnate (plus being too much of a collective).
Abstain on the Twins, to Unicron
Not the Eye
Gonna Twins. While Janitor sends kids to them and Guests eat, them being one to kill and prepare them sounds like enought of the niche.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 23rd 2023 at 10:02:48 AM
Gentle Laborer
Eh, leaning ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
on the Twins. The slaughter of children seems way too systematic, the Twins come off as cogs in the machine. They may be responsible for the killing part but the Janitor and the Guests are no less important—The Janitor is basically the jailer and the Guests fund the Maw/perpetuate the whole thing.
And that's not even mentioning the Ferryman from the comic series, who's responsible for bringing children to the Maw in the first place.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jun 23rd 2023 at 2:21:46 PM
