Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Russel, The Boogyman, Jebus, and Collier
Carrot Clone
Collier
ACW: Completely understand where your coming from, still from my understanding its so rare it shouldn't be an issue. He'll go between Welsh (season 9) and Renshaw (season 12).
There are also two more Father Brown candidates to come (one from me, one from Eruptor) sometime this week.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, yes to Jebus as well.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
to Jebus
Did we ever figure out how we're adding new quotes to the subpage?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
to Boogy.
to Jebus.
to Collier.
Now, having rewatched The Devil's Own, I have a person to purpose: Billy Burke, played wonderfully by Treat Williams.
What is the work?
The Devil's Own is a 1997 action movie starring Brad Pitt, with a questionable Irish accent, and Harrison Ford, in his 90s action Dad hero phase.
Frankie McGuire, a member of the Provisional Irish Republican Army, arrives in the United States to obtain anti-aircraft missiles against British helicopters. In order to get these Stingers, Frankie finds a buyer.
Enter Irish Mobster Billy Burke, a black-market arms dealer played wonderfully by the late great Treat Williams.
Who is Burke and what has He done?
Billy Burke is an Irish Mob arms dealer, running his business out of a bar. Burke meets with Frankie, knowing that he is looking for Stinger missiles for the IRA, and arranges for him to get the Stingers. (In a scene ultimately cut from the movie though present in the trailer, Burke is shown testing and buying those Stingers.)
Burke finds out that Frankie has the money already brought and paid for but is holding off because of some trouble back home. Burke pressures him to continue with the deal as he is out of a lot of money for buying the Stingers. Burke would send a few of his thugs to where Frankie was staying, a house owned by police officer Tom O'Mara. His thugs ransack the house and hold Tom's wife hostage before escaping. Burke has Frankie's friend, Sean, caught and beaten, and held hostage as leverage.
During the meeting, Burke reveals he had tortured and killed Sean, his head decapitated, in payback. Burke berates Frankie, insulting his intelligence and Irish derogatory terms, and has him hand over the money. The money bag that Frankie gives him is an explosion and his men are killed by him before Burke is finished off.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Not really, the only redeeming thing that is shown is likely him ordering one of his men to be sent to the doctor after Frankie shot him. Granted there was blood on the floor...
Is He bad enough?
Burke is able to put on a friendly face. But if you screw him, he makes your life hell. He is at his core, a greedy man who only cares about when his money isn't past due. He buys dozens of Stinger missiles to be used in the IRA conflict where they would be used to take out helicopters and enact more mass casualty incidents. He orders his men to look for the money that he knows is being hidden away at the O'Maras and his men even try to kill Tom's wife, holding her hostage if Frankie and Tom don't comply. Finally, he has Sean killed, having him beaten, tortured, and decapitated all for petty payback.
Despite his limited screen time, he is only in three or four scenes at most, Burke is treated as a legit threat. The other villains in the movie are Frankie himself, a British intelligence agent bending the rules to stop Frankie and a corrupt judge in league with the IRA.
Final verdict? Yes. Especially for Treat Williams, whose villain roles were always so good.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I mean, I guess so? He seems lacking for an action film baddie.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I think I can lean to Burke—
—since his being an infamous arms dealer as is and wanting to give weapons to an already hostile conflict where even more lives are gonna be lost as a result both attribute/contribute strongly to his rap sheet—and the overall stakes of the film too. You can hold Burke just as responsible for what’s about to happen as you do Frankie/Rory.
God rest to Treat Williams. Was heartbreaking what happened to him, especially with his final tweet being only four hours before.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
More of a drama than an action film. You look at it compared to Air Force One from the same year and there's a clear difference. One definitely has more of a pulse than the other.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 18th 2023 at 7:14:01 AM
Yes, this is more of a drama that is also a slow burn actioner.
Franchouchou Sponsor
Someone should remember to add JP's entry to Street Fighter
Edited by IkeaHan on Jun 18th 2023 at 8:01:04 AM
Character Specific Page cleanup
The Moron
It's been added to Sandbox.Monster Street Fighter and has been requested for swapping at the LP thread
...Phenomenal
for Collier and Burke.
To Burke
Yes to the Boogeyman, Jebus, Collier and Burke.
What's the work?
The Island of Doctor Moreau is a famous work by H. G. Wells and a groundbreaking bit of sci fi literature in which the author hammers home his themes of human identity, mortality and the effects of interfering with nature.
Protagonist, wealthy Englishman Edward Prendick, is shipwrecked after a disaster in the small, undersupplied dingey and all of his companions die. Rescued by the oddball Dr. Montgomery, a fight with the rescuing vessel's captain—who's transporting Montgomery, a number of animals, some strangely beastial men and his mysterious, senior companion—forces Prendick to follow Montgomery and co. to their island. Montgomery's quiet, older companion quickly reveals who's really in charge as a series of horrific discoveries are made by our hero.
Who is Dr. Moreau? What has he done?
A man who's been through the thread both in name through adaptation and spirit via Expies, the 19th century Mad Scientist was driven out of England years ago when he committed a series of cruel vivisections, one horribly mutilated (and probably mortally wounded) dog escaped his lab, terrifying citizens and turning him into a pariah.
In his remote island, Prendick discovers the madman has been obsessing over creating humans and the plethora of animals which have been brought are painfully and surgically turned into the beast men seen. In just the latest voyage, dozens of terrified animals including dogs and rabbits are brought, with the solemn, docile beast men alongside them. During one particular conversation with Montgomery—who constantly winces in implied pity for the monsters—the scene is punctuated with the shrieks of a poor puma brought to the isle on the latest voyage, something that goes on for the course of an entire day.
After adventuring around the island and being terrified by its inhabitants, Prendick returns to his lodgings and becomes curious despite Montgomery's warnings... venturing into a lab when he hears the cries of an animal and happens upon Moreau vivisecting a dog to his horror. Moreau furiously curses about their guest discovering his work and Prendick flees into the forest. Moreau hunts Prendick down as the latter hears a beast man give a chant on the "Laws" which Moreau makes them practice and learns of the House of Pain where he tortures and re-educates them when they defy his will. Moreau collects the fled Prendick and chastises him, promising to let him die the next time he runs off and explaining his research into making animals into men, with over 100 tortured subjects having gone through the process and roughly half of whom are already dead.
Setting out to torture a leopard-man for killing a rabbit, as eating meat is against their Law, Moreau is angered by Prendick shooting the terrified beast dead to save him the pain. At this point Prendick fully commits to determining Moreau is a monster, his scientific advancements be damned. His cruelty also catches up with him at this point, with the puma-woman he's been torturing for weeks to uplift getting free and slashing him. Moreau pursues her into the forest and both wind up killing each other.
Mitigating factors?
He's not quite the sadist future versions wound up getting twisted into but he's so unfettered in his work it doesn't make much difference. He claims the screams of pain the beast men give off proves they aren't yet human and is determined the solution is to... cause them more pain and stabs himself in the leg with a penknife to "prove" his own superiority. Moreau even admits there's no purpose behind his research beyond slaking his own curiosity, he's completely apathetic to the hell he's putting so many lives through.
The stuff with the beast men also carries a serious racial implication, with only the Englishmen Montgomery and Prendick allowed to carry whips and pistols and keep the beast men in line with him. Prendick himself even narrates that the laws Moreau gave to his creatures are nothing but his own version of Commandments made to deify himself and his own insane ego.
Heinousness?
The rape bit for reproduction done in The Island of Lost Souls isn't incorporated here but it's said the beast men are capable of breeding. Along with Moreau making reference to the 120 he's "worked on" and tormented, Prendick makes a remark that the children of the beast men aren't living more than a year. He's a nasty, ego-driven scientist and there's a serious amount of suffering on his hands.
Verdict?
Yes for the original version of the Evilutionary Biologist.
Woagh
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Moreau.
Rawr.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Moreau, great work!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Carrot Clone
Moreau
The wifi here sucks
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Moreau.
Edited by Snoketrope on Jun 18th 2023 at 9:36:11 AM
The First man
...Phenomenal
for Moreau.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Doctor Moreau, now I see where they draw inspiration from for MCU!High Evolutionary.
What is the work?
Carnage: Black, White & Blood is an anthology series centred around Carnage, some of which are set in Earth-616 and others of which are set in alternate universes."End of the Trail" is a story set in an alternate universe, where a US Marshal named Seth Strode tracks a monstrously brutal serial killer through the Colorado wilderness, only to discover he is the one being hunted by an otherworldly horror with an insatiable appetite for bloodshed.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
The Carnage symbiote arrived on Earth at an unknown point in time during or prior to the 19th century. Bonding to an unnamed man, the symbiote sets fire to a church in Twin Hills, Kansas... with the congregation still inside, grinning as it watches the inferno. It then goes to Montana and attacks a Great Northern train, massacring all the passengers. Stopping by Saber, New Mexico, Carnage kills every single inhabitant of the town. Other crimes it's committed include burning down a bank — the flames hot enough to melt the gold and silver inside — and killing a bunch of people at a poker table to steal their teeth.
Holing up in a cave in the Colorado wilderness, Carnage decorates its new home with the corpses of bounty hunters, horses, and townsfolk — impaling some of them on trees and leaving the bones of others strewn about. Oh, and it picks a fight with a grizzly bear and leaves the shredded corpse for the crows to feast on.
When elite gunslinger and Federal Marshal Seth Strode is sent to investigate the seemingly random string of gruesome murders, tracking the trail of bloodshed to its lair, Carnage springs a trap using the corpse of one of its victims as a decoy. Bonding to Strode and taking over his body, Carnage taunts him with the knowledge that it was the one hunting him, seeing in him the ideal host to write the tales of how the West was won in blood.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
Nope. Carnage may not have any dialogue beyond screeching and roaring, but its sadism and the gruesomeness of its crimes — shown via flashbacks — speaks for itself.Are they bad enough?
This iteration of Carnage rampaged across at least four states leaving hundreds — if not thousands — of bodies in its wake, all to lure in the ideal host to continue its campaign of slaughter. I'd say so.'''Final verdict?
I'm personally leaning, but I'll leave that up to your judgement.
Franchouchou Sponsor
How many Carnage variants do we have now? Lol
Character Specific Page cleanup
Hmm... let's see...
- Mainstream Carnage
- Cowboy Carnage
- Agent Carnage
- Qiqion Carnage
-
Pirate Carnage - Carnageized Codex
Oh, and Doc Moreau, BTDubs.
Edited by Arawn999 on Jun 18th 2023 at 11:04:36 AM
