Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Late ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the god of war duo and black Adam duo
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to the scooby doo duo
to Lucius Varus
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Arch-Enemy works.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I wish the other Bayonetta games would come to PC 
Edited by ACW on Jan 23rd 2023 at 9:55:23 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, Arch-Enemy. Satanic Archetype isn't a thing in Greek myth. Bayonetta 3 EP coming, hang tight.
Now, then, at last: From bayonetta 3.
Singularity.
Who is Singularity?
An artificial human from the Alphaverse. Bayonetta 3 introduces the multiverse, with countless Bayonettas across space and time. Singularity was created in an experiment by the people of the Alphaverse and became self aware. He went full Skynet, created his own race of artificial beings csalled the homunculi and exterminated all life on his world. Becoming aware of the multiverse, Singularity formed a plan: erase all other universes, break them down and fuse them to himself so he might impose his will on the tapestry of creation.
Beginning to invade other universes, Singularity realized there was one being who could defy fate, the Arch-Eve. Bayonetta, the Umbra Witch. Prioritizing her, Singularity began to kill every Bayonetta across the multiverse, with her death assuring that each universe would fall relatively quickly. In one universe, only Bayonetta's daughter Viola managed to escape to the main reality.
Singularity followed, killed a scientist named Dr. Sigurd and used the body as a proxy for his own. Viola arrives at Bayo's world, while Singularity is wrapping up another universe, jut before the two clash for the first time.
Singularity proceeds to use his Homunculi to invade and try to destroy multiple cities. With her Umbra Witch sister in arms, Jeanne, Bayonetta reasons that to stop Singularity, they need to get to the Alphaverse and destroy him there. Unfortunately, Singularity traps them and kills Jeanne, before resuming his destruction of the universe and creation of his pristine world of order.
Thankfully, Bayonetta disrupts it with Jeanne returning. The two fight back together and Bayonetta summons her counterparts. While it costs her life, Bayo beats back Singularity and summons her demon Gommorah with a final blow to shatter Singularity utterly, causing his universe to collapse in of itself and slowly restore all he had destroyed. Viola ends up taking the mantle of her mother and ends the game as the new Bayonetta.
Mitigating issues?
Laughable. Singularity is an order obsessed tyrant. A callous sociopath out to exterminate the multiverse and rebuild it in his own image. He's basically Skynet meets Ultron, with a completely cold and clinical approach who glories in his own perfection.
And he's wiped out literally thousands of universes by the time he comes to Bayonetta's world. I even need to say how badly this guy punches out of the heinous standard?
Conclusion?
Easy keep.
Lucius and Singularity, it's not really possible to out heinous guys trying to destroy the multiverse
Switching to Scooby-Doo duo
Goku Black
Singularity.
Not the Eye
Yes to Singularity.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Singularity...geeze, and I thought Loptr was bad.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Singularity. Was waiting for Singularity for some time.
I'm gonna honestly say we might need to talk about Loptr here. He's a god, not just a schmo off the street. the Witch Hunts are his top claim to villainy with a ton of death and destruction, but Singularity might well blow him way out of the water.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Singularity.
Feels good, don't it?
Ultimate Moral Compass
Singularity
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay, so it's not just me. May be worth a talk at the cleanup thread.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Singularity. So that’s why the ending is so hated…
Happy to Singularity. Been waiting for him to go up
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Singularity and Lucius.
- Heartbreaker, Regent's father, is a wretched Serial Rapist with the power to manipulate emotions. Isolating and permanently twisting his victims to form a cult-like harem of constantly adoring women, Heartbreaker sends them to commit crimes on his behalf and "rents them out" alongside his children, having any he tires of driven insane with fear or killed in shootouts that see hordes of brainwashed victims war on law enforcement. Heartbreaker also uses his powers to traumatically discipline the many children fathered from his slaves with waves of paralyzing terror and abusive "tests" held on their birthdays, one of which sees an entire party of innocent children tortured, and he uses any he can get to trigger as Child Soldiers whose spirits he breaks into loyalty by forcing them to commit murders. An amoral narcissist who ruins countless lives to prop up his hedonistic lifestyle, not even his own children are safe as he obsessively attempts to control and corrupt them into sociopathic rapists, murderers and torturers like himself, with his legacy of abuse continuing to torment them long after his death.
What's the work?
Ward is the even longer sequel to Worm, continuing its predecessor's penchant for trauma and nightmares. Starring Victoria Dallon, the former teenage heroine "Glory Girl", the story is set after Jack Slash's apocalypse: long story short, Super-Jesus turned out to be an alien god who Jack convinced to try to kill the multiverse. He was stopped, but humanity... well, humanity faced some budget cuts.
The universe Worm was set in, Earth Bet, was utterly decimated in the conflict. The straggling survivors of Bet have retreated to an Alternate Universe where humanity never existed, Earth Gimel, to rebuild civilization. Unfortunately, a lot of villains survived, and whereas before they had agreements in place to play nice and help out against threats like the Slaughterhouse Nine... well, all bets are off in the post-apocalypse.
Also, another apocalypse is steadily approaching, and this time no one is in a position to prevent it. More on that later.
Who is Mama Mathers?
Originally just a young girl from an extremely religious family, Christine Mathers was kicked out of her home because of a teen pregnancy, and she refused to get rid of her baby. Unfortunately for her, the baby somehow got mind control powers, and she was left as his slave. Seeking help, Christine sought out a way to buy powers that would render her immune to her child's influence... and what powers she got.
Basically she can influence any sense you perceive her with: you hear her, she can inflect auditory hallucinations. See her? Get ready for a really trippy nightmare. She can also use this ability to "imprint" on people, leaving phantom hallucinations of herself that constantly monitor their every action. With this power, Christine was able to get her son under control, before setting out to do... more dastardly things.
Going by "Mama" Mathers, she and her son, introduced as the minor villain Valefor in Worm, would become major figures in the Fallen, an Apocalypse Cult/Religion of Evil that worships the Endbringers—those three giant kaiju that cause mass death on a global scale I've mentioned a few times. The two used their powers to abduct several young innocents, often heroes (gender unimportant), and brainwash them into joining their family, using them as soldiers or marrying them off to other members of the Fallen to strengthen alliances/provide breeding "sluts" (again, gender unimportant) whose children would have a higher chance of getting powers. Pretty soon the Mathers had their own faction running, an entire operation of kidnapping, brainwashing, and arranged marriages wrapped up in Mama's Christian fundamentalism.
And then the end of the world hits. The Fallen get a major boost in popularity and support from the scared masses due to being right about the whole "the end times are approaching" thing that comes with being an Apocalypse Cult, with the Mathers founding their own community with the many refugees looking for food and shelter. However, some of their antics come back to bite them when the survivors of a Fallen arson attack become supervillains and target their community (more on that later), leading to the heroes also getting involved in the ensuing war. To deal with the latter, Mama has the aforementioned refugees taken hostage, inflicting horrific hallucinations on the crowds of innocents and any of her allies who are taken captive.
However, when trying to use the hostages to leverage medical attention for her injured son, Mama gets taken out of commission when... *checks notes* they fly a drone over her head, deactivate it, and let it kamikaze down and knock her unconscious. Hm. Unfortunately, that's not it for the Mathers, as the supervillain Teacher breaks her and Valefor out of prison. Long story short, Teacher has been working with an alternate universe, Earth Cheit, to begin an interdimensional war for the fate of the multiverse. To solidify his control over Cheit, he brings in Mama Mathers during a visit to the capitol and allows thousands of citizens to see her, allowing him to effectively cripple their government at his leisure. Mathers begins using this influence to mold Cheit into her own idealized world, rewarding worship while punishing the "faithless" as she enforces Christianity and white supremacy with her illusions.
Fast forward a little, and Teacher's base gets raided by an army of heroes. The Mathers are brought out to fight them, but Mama abandons Valefor when he begins losing and isn't too choked up about his subsequent death, only to get beaten again and taken back into custody.
Is she heinous enough?
The Fallen is a cult of rapist nazi hillbillies. They engage in sex trafficking and hate crimes, torturing minorities and forcing arranged marriages between brainwashed captives—or just normal captives, which... ugh. And if that isn't bad enough, Mama goes on to try to twist an entire alternate universe into following her beliefs, torturing thousands with the intent to see white supremacy run rampant. The neo-nazi gang from Worm are surprisingly tame compared to other villains, but the Mathers more than make up for their lack of vileness by spearheading racism to new, interdimensional heights. The only real competition she has is Heartbreaker, but I think the bigot angle and Mind Rape adds a unique flavor to her.
Here and there, she tested, and she judged. She could nudge, by giving grace to some and giving others a reason to doubt. Some of these denominations? No. For now, she punished those who preached too much peace, with glimpses of the holy that fled or walked away. She punished those who spoke of God but not of Jesus, or worshiped the Koran and not the Bible, by making certain books, icons and objects rot and twist like snakes, and by making shadows deeper. She gave them glimpses of hell.
They had only glimpsed her, so she could only touch their eyes. There would be more opportunities later. Over time, she would make what she knew replace their mere beliefs, and she would make their most zealous twice as earnest in that zealousness. She would make brown and black bend the knee to white, once they had served her purpose. But all of that would come later. For now she was content to work by increments, to use who she could.
Mitigating factors?
The biggest one is her care for her son. She left her home to keep him, and definitely loved him... at that point in time. Certain lines imply she grew to resent him for his control over her, and while she goes out of her way to try to save his life several times, those certain lines imply it's just because he has a useful power.
And, of course, she leaves him to die in the attack on Teacher's base. Admittedly, she does ask a hero later if he knows if Valefor survived, but...
- It's less in a genuine "I hope he's okay" way and more mild curiosity.
- Her internal dialogue right after this admits she was just trying to get the hero to talk to her so she could further her control over him.
- She goes right back to mind raping him when he doesn't answer, without too much interest in getting a response.
As for anything else? Eh. She genuinely believes in her faith, but it's a faith she's twisted into essentially worship of herself, as the one constantly controlling and watching after "her" faithful. It's unclear whether Teacher brainwashed her into serving him as he did with Valefor, but her torment of Cheit is all done on her own initiative, and nothing ever indicates he made her abandon her son in the final fight. At the end of the day, she's a self-centered monster who uses faith as kindling for her ego.
Valefor himself doesn't count. When he was just a kid, he couldn't take the abusive visions his mother used to keep him in line anymore and brainwashed himself into liking it, ensuring his utmost loyalty to her cause.
Singularity.
to the Singularity and Mathers
Edited by G-Editor on Jan 23rd 2023 at 12:07:58 PM
Yes to Singularity
Not the Eye
to Mama Mathers.
Lighty forgot he'd permitted me to put up my writeup, but gave me permission to do it now too though. I was gonna wait until tomorrow to do both Ishmael and Ahk-Ton, but instead I'll do them separately and then post the whole tree. Here's Ishmael:
- Ishmael Gregor is a mercenary Intergang descendant of King Ahk-Ton throwing the country of Kahndaq into chaos, poverty and oppression—at one point killing his own man for "beating" him too hard during an act too. Like his ancestor before him, Ishmael intends to achieve the Crown of Sabbac so as to bring the armies of the Underworld onto the world and keeps the people fearful and threatened with acts of violence performed by the Intergang to do so prior to that. Once Ishmael manages to actually get proper possession and control of the crown—through kidnapping and threatening Adrianna Tomaz's young son Amon, he becomes Sabbac and leads the army into Kahndaq with the desire to solidify his firm grasp over it first and foremost.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Mama.
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Mathers.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I would go with Arch-Enemy. He's Kratos' most hated and personal foe in the entire saga.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."