Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Yes to Ghidorah, Frank, Ariel, Watatsuki and I'll say yeah to Tarkin for now.
What's the work?
Training Day is set 15 years after the film, where exposure of Detective Alonzo Harris' corruption has led to a mass release of LA criminals. Young Detective Kyle Craig is assigned to Detective Frank Rourke's squad—best friend of his slain Detective father Billy—by Joy Lockhart, a former friend of Frank's now gunning for him. While the Myth Arc villain sadly isn't quite bad enough, the reason is tons of weekly baddies get up to some serious nastiness: let's start by introducing Special Agent Gerald Lynch from episode 6, "Faultlines".
Who is Lynch? What has he done?
Taking over Frank's case after he stops a shootout instigated by Arms Dealers trying to kill their clients to resell the weapons, he acts like an ass and meaning to snatch a way his "informant" who allegedly failed to inform him about the gang's intent to sell. Frank suspects something is amiss and tips off his subordinates, Rebecca and Tommy, about the plan to transport the informant and the two catch Lynch's agents setting up the man to be killed by members of his own gang.
Revealed to be running a massive operation across the country, Lynch claims to be destroying confiscated guns by marking such on the books while secretly selling them back to criminals. Setting them up to die en masse, Lynch is indirectly responsible for the killing of Kyle's partner in the first episode by supplying the episode's villain. When questioned if he knew her name, Lynch laughs it off and threatens to murder Frank and Kyle if they keep investigating him.
Frank manages to get ahold of Lynch's guns, though he catches Tommy and Rebecca, agreeing to a meet to exchange them, Lynch promises to lop the two's feet off if he's double crossed. At the meeting, a shootout goes down and Lynch's men are all killed, while he's left in handcuffs and Kyle punches him to remind him of his partner's death, the bastard going to rot in prison with his career destroyed.
Mitigating factors?
Lord no, the man is jovial in how apathetic he is to the death he deals and cheerfully threatens all the heroes for catching on to his scheme. For extra scumbag points he even discretely has one gangster he set up to die rehired as muscle to be killed on another mission for him.
Heinousness?
Anyone on the fence about Alonzo can know he's been officially left in the dust on this front. This series has traffickers, terrorists and butchers of cartel members—the first episode baddie I mentioned himself worth a post—but Lynch holds it down for worst merchant of death in the work, he makes huge profits off a massive amount of guns he acquires through murder and knowingly lets them get used to kill even other cops in public shootouts.
He holds a niche quite firmly.
Verdict?
Finally, a Training Day keeper, first of four planned.
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Lynch
Carrot Clone
Tarkin and Lynch
- Bayonetta 1 & 2: Fortitudo, Bringer of Flame, the Cardinal Virtue of Fortitude, is one of the top four members of Auditito who, despite being a minion, stands out for his despicable crimes. Seeking to awaken Jubileus, the Creator, in order to allow Auditito to claim all of reality and rule over the universe, Fortitudo manipulated Father Balder into orchestrating the Witch Hunts, wiping out the Umbra Witches and Lumen Sages so that nobody can stand in their way of claiming the Eyes of the World needed for Jubileus’s awakening, even participating in the Witch Hunts himself.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 18th 2023 at 11:32:29 AM
"It doesn't matter anymore. You win. It is Duck Season."
to King Ghidorah, Gunther Franken, Ariel, Watatsuki no Toyohime, Wilhuff Tarkin and Special Agent Gerald Lynch (looking forward to the other three).
Given that a Touhou web video is suggested to be put as a CM candidate, I have a question to ask. Can anything in the Touhou canon even count (excluding fan works and web original)? Or it's just that type of stuff we treat like The Boondocks or Sponge Bob Square Pants?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Mar 19th 2023 at 2:37:58 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Almost all canon Touhou works are White-and-Grey Morality ones where actual villains are rare and the worst you'll get is an Anti-Villain. It could theoretically have a Complete Monster at some point, but it's unlikely.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
And a yup to Ghidorah, Gunther Franklin, Ariel, and Agent Lynch!
The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."
Showtime!
To Watatsuki, Tarkin, and Lynch
to Tarkin and Lynch
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Lynch. 4 keepers from 13 eps? Wow.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
One real other quick one from me now. I'll do Videodrome and Training Day/Diagnosis Murder next
What's the work?
Never Say Never Again in an "unofficial" Bond film with a bit of a questionable history. Released starring none other than Sean Connery in a loose remake of Thunderball. Our villain?
Ernst. Stavro. BLOFELD.
Who is Blofeld?
The master of SPECTRE who is shown participating in every nastyb thing SPECTRE will do. Mass murder, criminality, murder of subordinates. All of it. But here? Blofeld has an evil plan...after masterminding numerou murders, brainwashing a captain to help...they've stolen nuclear warheads. Using Emilio Largo as his proxy, Blofeld announces to the world that he is engaging in terorrism and extortion...
And if they don't pay up or try to stop him? They'll engage in revenge. And he orders a nuking of Miami, just as in the rest...Largo is killed with his men, but Blofeld?
Remains at large.
Mitigating issues?
Nah. Max von sydow makes a fantastic Blofeld, and he's more hands on, with all the evil schemes seen.
Largo probably counts, but anyone can do him if they want. I'm just here for the Blofeld!
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Blofeld
I wouldn't mind tackling Largo since I recall he intended on selling Domino to some creepy slavers?
A million brain cells? That seems excessively destructive...
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Blofeld.
Where the hell will he go on the page, since this is more or less unofficial?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Blofeld
Carrot Clone
Unofficial!Blofeld
I'm guessing Never Say Never Again gets its own section all to itself with the movies. Haha. Sounds appropriate. That version of Largo will definitely count too.
to the NSNA Blofeld of course.
Based on the EP, to Lynch. Been meaning to watch that show. Yeah, Alonzo for this is tricky not just because he doesn't have the credentials, but the ambiguity that he cares for anything or anyone could go either way too.
Doesn't make him any less of a great villain though.
One of Bill Paxton's final works. Been six damn years now. God rest all the more.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Mar 18th 2023 at 12:57:38 PM
Yeah, go on the page. Never Say Never Again was the result of a big rights struggle.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I guess its own section makes sense.
Edited by ACW on Mar 18th 2023 at 3:51:20 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Tarkin, Lynch and Blofeld!
And my second, coming from the mainline Godzilla IDW comics...
Who is Gigan? What has he done?
- The same cyborg sadist as always, Gigan arrives on Earth with several other Kaiju, and while several are known to be lumbering beasts who wreck all in their path, Gigan is shown to deliberately target humans, rampaging through Hong Kong and using his buzzsaw weaponry to slaughter entire buildings' worth of civilians. Gigan is eventually stopped from annihilating the entire city by Rodan, who blinds Gigan and sends him fleeing.
- Returning later upgraded by the Cryogs, Gigan murders his way into Area 51—taking time to single out and vaporize swathes of soldiers—and unleashes a Cryog weapon. Gigan leads an assault on Las Vegas, tearing through the city and killing many people before being attacked by Godzilla and Jet Jaguar. Though Gigan disregards orders by the Cryogs to retreat, instead satisfying his Blood Knight desires by fighting Godzilla and causing more destruction, he is eventually driven off.
- Later, Gigan causes evermore devastation to pave the way for the Cryog invasion of Earth, but winds up turning on the Cryogs out of sheer omnicidal mania. He utterly massacres the Cryog fleet for lulz, planning to then launch his own attack on Earth, but he's ultimately taken down by Godzilla and the more-heroic Kaiju while the Cryog invasion—heavily wounded by Gigan's betrayal—is stopped.
Mitigating features?
Nope! Utter Ax-Crazy nutbar who wins up turning on the very people he's working for just for lulz.
Heinousness?
He's got a heavy hand in the Cryog invasion of Earth by butchering Area 51, Las Vegas and wreaking other forms of havok—even before the Cryog's arrival killing swathes of people in Hong Kong—and he ultimately betrays and kills his way through the Cryog fleet itself.
Final Verdict?
Yes
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
to Tarkin and Lynch Gigan and Blofeld
Yes to another Blofeld and Gigan
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 18th 2023 at 11:04:23 AM
to Gigan and Blofeld
Not the Eye
to Gigan
Thanks to everybody for feedback, let’s do this. here
is brief summary of A Single Decision
But bassicaly
Clone Wars continues, Grievius is leader of the Saparatist. But thanks to having his mind implants removed in the first chapter and having Esera as second in command after she foils the assasination attempt on him by separatist counclin, both Grievous and Confederacy gradually become sligthly less villainus.
Republic on other hand…
Who is Palpatine’s succesor and what has he done?
With Chancellor gone, Vice-Chancellor Mad Amedda takes reins of the Rebuplic on the cusp of victory…
But he turns out to be an incompetent idiot. Wilhuff Tarkin meanwhile, manipulates senator of his home sector into passing her possition onto him while she goes to defend their home, not that he cares about it.
Thanks to being close with Palpatine and having big role in Republic war effort, Tarkin is made member of Amedda’s inter circle. He uses this position to both unsuply Republic with the information and leak it to the Confederacy. This leads to Confederacy conquering Mytaranor sector and destroying whole 12th fleet, killing or capturing all its personel. This cause Confederacy, which has been on the brink of defeat to pick up a steam and proleng the war for years. Just as Tarkin planned, using defeat to call for vote of no confidence and out Amedda, becoming a Chancellor.
Tarkin gets into a contact with Palpatines’s followers Sate Prestage and Janus Greejatus, making them his advisors and planing to complete Palpatine’s Death Star, planing to use it to blow up Confederacy capital Raxus and use fear to rule galaxy. Tarkin pushes for faster development, wanting what would take decades in matter of months, even giving Krennic premision the threthen Galen Erso’s family if his work on super laser continues to delay.
Tarkin continues war effort, noting that he dosen’t want to end war before he has a weapon that could make sure galaxy bows down to him. He notably requests a Aid of their hutt alies, but Hutts want great part of space (including Tion Cluster, home of their ancient enemies), to do with it as they please. Tarkin, after a moment of hesetation (because Tion Cluster is one of one of oldest human teritories in the Outer Rim), happily obliges.
Thanks to Esera and her growing weird crew (including Klaud
), Confederacy takes control of Zeltron withous civilian cassualties. This enraged Tarkin, just as he has a visitor. Ardabur Aspar, young Jedi Knight behind bombardment of Shumavar, who pledges himself to the Republic. Together (and with help of Jedi, strongest hinted to be a Grend Inquisitor) they found Knigts of the republic, a faction of force users loyal to Tarkin first and foremost, recruiting hundreds of Padawan and some masters who want to do everything to end the war.
As Tarkin gats impatient for development of super laser, Janus presents an alternative. Sith holocrom of King Adas, hiden on Confederacy allied planet Emeberlene. Tarkin has team of comandos dispached, just as Esera and crew are there to help planet fight the onslaught, as much as Esera think they deserve to be destroyed. This results in Tarkin placing kill order on Esera.
Tarkin has Maul recruited to help with holocrom and send knight of the republic to Mandalore to secure the Beskar mines. Knight faces Esera and thought many people die, Esera’s crew destroy the mines and stop them from failing into Republic’s hands. Meahwile, Tarkin, Maul, Aspar and Janus travel to hidden Rakatan planet using Adas’s holocrom. There they find a seed, misterious weapon that even Raakat were afraid to use. And great alternative for superlaser.
They bring the Seed back to Coruscant and Plant it in Chancellorship apartment, waiting. And it blossoms into a flower that can provide replacement for superlaser, it only requires life force of few million sentients. Just as Jedi are about to stand their ground agains him.
Mitigating factors?
No, he is xenophobic (like almost Danetta Pitta level) sociopath worthy of taking Palpatine’s place as Big Bad of the galaxy.
Heinousness?
Okay this could be an issue. This fic has big standard. Palpatine is already brought up, but Grievius has combination of his canon and Legends crimes, not to mention other nasties like Aspar, Atai Molec ( king of slave owning empire who attemped to rape teenage Esera) and leadership of Emeberlene (misandist xenophobic eugenicists who waged war of conquest on their entire sector).
While thanks to Grieviuse’s clearer head and Esera influence Confederacy slowly becomes more and more geniunely heroic (ending Zyggerian slave trade for example), they are still nasty, with mention that general Kalani had planet evacuated and subjected to Chemical attack that killed Quartet of population as they were evacuating.
That being said I think Tarkin still craves out his niche. He has entire sector and fleet sold out to enemy as political move, move clearly stated to have ensured war continues for years. He was promient part of Republic’s war effort and continues it after becoming Chancellor. He happily solds out hope chunk of space to hutt’s to gain tactical advantage. He plans to develop the Death Star and use it to destroy any planet which stands against him, before swaping super laser with artifact which requires life force of millions.
Conclusion?
Gonna Lean yes.