Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Shandor.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Shandor by the way.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Ivo Shandor.
Have to agree with the consensus, as we don't actually get to see him causing the wars and disasters, I'm not sure the Devil can count. Shame as to my recollection the episode is pretty detailed about it. Might be worth checking out the short story it was originally based upon, I believe he's more active there.
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Devil
A humbled version of Halara Nightmare
What is the work?
The Joy of Creation: Story Mode (the story mode of Reborn) is a Five Nights at Freddy’s fan game by Nikson that is now part of the Fazbear Fanverse.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Ignited Golden Freddy is the apparent leader of the Ignited during the events of Story Mode. He is the unseen villain responsible for everything that happens in the game as he made a deal with Michael to release the Ignited into the real world, essentially acting as somewhat of a tyrant during the events of the story. He basically allows the Ignited to kill the protagonists freely and doesn’t care for his partner’s ideals, and is acting pretty much on his own.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
He’s a demonic spirit who wants to kill people indiscriminately. So there is no trauma or excuse here. He’s basically the original Golden Freddy if he had no tragedy or sympathy but still had the heinousness, and was not possessed by a confused child. Despite his status as a spirit, he’s clearly got moral agency and the ability to choose not to do what he does, but he does it anyway.
Are they bad enough?
His competition is against Michael and the Ignited. Michael is the Big Bad, but he is an Anti-Villain and just wants to live a normal life; even Nikson has confirmed this. The Ignited are essentially equally evil so they don’t stand out and are working under Golden Freddy himself, so they’re actually his scapegoats. Golden Freddy is acting entirely on his own. He doesn’t appear to respect Michael either and was also using him as a pawn during the Basement level so that he and his “friends” could be released into the real world considering how quickly he started killing everyone without Michael’s permission.
Final verdict?
Yes. This guy is worse than Golden Freddy himself ever was.
Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
Woagh
Leaning to Ignited Golden Freddy, i don't recall the guy having any sort of character other than "evil spirit.
to Ivo Shandor.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Apr 9th 2024 at 4:57:06 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
No to the Howling Man... he's on MB precisely because of how under detailed his prior crimes are, while the episode focuses on what a trickster he is in his plot to escape captivity. No to Golden Freddy too based on Dood's comments.
Not the Eye
Golden Freedy
The Draftsman of Doom
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Ignited Golden Freddy and the Devil.
for Ivo Shandor.
Other write-up.
- Dusty Revenge: Craven is a malicious warlord longing for ultimate power. Formerly a member of the Circle of Eight, a group of explorers who made a pact to protect the Illumna race, Craven betrayed his companions and slaughtered the Illumna so he could steal all of their power-enhancing dust. Amassing an army of mercenaries, Craven hunted down the other members of the circle—one of whom was Dusty's father who stole a component Craven needed for an unstoppable war machine. He later sent mercenaries to attack Dusty's house to get the component, one of whom ended up murdering Dusty's fiancée instead, and kidnapped Rondel's son to use him as leverage. After countless mercenaries fail to kill Dusty and his allies, Craven tries to murder Dusty personally, tearing off the head of one of his lackeys for failing him and leaving several others to die so he can escape after he's wounded. When Craven is confronted by the heroes, he threatens to kill Rondel's son by crushing him to death.
Mr.
To Ivo Shandor, the Anti-Life, and Trigon!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So Shandor is only the second (after my Alexander Rausch) for J. K. Simmons I believe.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Shandor
Devil and Freddy
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Apr 9th 2024 at 10:09:47 AM
Not the Eye
- Supergirl (Rebirth) The Killers of Krypton issues 25-28: Harry Hokum is a human who somehow ended up in the Vega star system and rose to become the leader of the fascistic Citadel. Under his leadership, the Citadel wages a bloody civil war involving a rebellion led by the Omega Men, with entire worlds and races killed by the Citadel. Hokum blackmails Empress Gandelo into giving him the right to strip mine Krypton’s remains by threatening to expose her involvement in its destruction, using technology he scavenged in experiments that left his personal laboratory filled with remains of vivisected aliens. When he captures Supergirl, Hokum takes her DNA to create a clone army to destroy the rebellion while throwing her in a labor camp. Luring the Omega Men with clones of their fallen comrades, Hokum uses clones to learn the location of their base and unleash deformed Supergirl clones on them.
- Ducktales: Twenty Years Later: Farid Kagan is the nephew of Shere Khan who, after losing his inheritance when McDuck Enterprises buys out Khan Industries, starts to plot his revenge. Rising to become president of Khan Industries, Farid manipulates Dewey Duck into giving him more executive power while the latter focuses on building his own fortune, using money to finance the Saint Canard underworld, funding murder, drug trade, pimps and supervillains. He uses money he made from this to finance the Beagle Boys in executing a bloody siege of Duckburg, framing Dewey and his brothers for it and taking over as CEO of McDuck Enterprises. Farid manipulates new Gizmoduck into working for him by capturing his mentor and predecessor to extract his blood to help his agent disguise himself as him, while keeping him starved and in isolation for years. He leads the Super Registration Act in Saint Canard, causing even more crime. Farid arranges for triplets and their allies to come to blows with Themberia, plotting to kick off a third world war and risk a nuclear holocaust in order to make money by selling weapons to both sides.
Got another EP from a novel I read last year. Not as certain on this one but I'll let y'all decide
What is the work?
Five Survive is a standalone YA thriller novel by Holly Jackson of Good Girl’s Guide to Murder fame. The plot sees teenager Red Kenny, still reeling from the unsolved murder of her police officer mother, going on an RV trip with her best friend Maddy Lavoy and several others en route to a Spring Break hangout. However, the route ends up taking them to an isolated stretch of country road, where they begin to be stalked by a murderous sniper out to kill Red personally, due to her being set as a key witness in the trial of a leading member of the Gotti mafia family.
Who is Catherine Lavoy and what has she done?
- Catherine Lavoy is Maddy’s mother and a noted attorney who also serves as a caring Parental Substitute to Red due to having been close friends with her late mother. However, the book’s progression reveals that she is a corrupt associate of several criminals.
- Persuading Red to testify under false pretences (aka commit perjury) against mobster Frank Gotti, who Catherine has claimed was the one to kill her mother, Catherine set up the RV trip with the full intent of getting Red killed after personally leaking her identity to the Gottis. The Gottis have two of Joseph’s sons assigned to kill Red – one being the unnamed sniper and the other being Arthur, who infiltrates the friend group inside the RV.
- - If that wasn’t enough, it turns out Catherine herself was the one to murder her friend, Red’s mother. When the latter nearly found out about Catherine’s mafia connections, she was murdered in a cruel fashion by being made go on her knees before Catherine coldly shot her to death.
- It also turns out that Catherine setting Red up was also part of her plan to frame her rival for the District Attorney position, Mo Frazer, as being the one to appear to have mob connections, using his email to fake communications with the Gottis so it will appear as though he was the one to leak Red’s identity.
- As Red realises, Catherine had stacked the deck so that either scenario would turn out advantageous for her; if Red lives, Catherine becomes DA due to Frank Gotti being sent to prison. If she dies, Mo Frazer goes down and Catherine runs unopposed to becoming DA. She never cared about Red, only using her as a tool to advance her career.
- Because of Catherine’s actions, three people, including her son and a kindly old couple, die while Maddy is critically wounded and left in the hospital at the end of the novel. At no point is Catherine depicted as showing regret for this.
- Ultimately, Catherine herself is assassinated by Arthur with a sniper rifle in an epilogue in an attempt to make amends to Red for deceiving her.
Heinous Standard
- This is where stuff gets a bit tricky. While Arthur’s brother has the majority of the actual kills in the novel, he is depicted as suffering from mental issues affecting his judgement while Arthur himself is remorseful for his role in the plan. All of the various mafia figures mentioned never appear to boot. Catherine however directly kills Red’s mother and is the one to engineer the sniper attack which leads to an additional three deaths on her hands. Catherine’s years-long streak of working with the mob as well as her callous manipulation of Red, having executed her mother while also being willing to let her die to achieve her goals, also helps put her over the line imo.
Mitigating Qualities
-Very few. While she is depicted as a caring maternal figure who is given moments of apparent quirky absentmindedness, it’s pretty standard Bitch in Sheep’s Clothing fare. She is indicated to have instilled toxic mindsets in her own children through her parenting, which leads to her son Oliver being a dictatorial young man who is indicated to be an abusive boyfriend. Her care for Red is also a façade with her being fine with her or any number of the other teenagers in the RV being killed. She has no Freudian Excuse, with desire to advance her career being her sole given motivation.
Verdict
- Leaning to a yes.
Edited by Bozzy on Apr 9th 2024 at 10:58:23 AM
King of the Koopas
To Catherine
Now I know some a lot of you were disappointed that we couldn’t get a CM version of Bowser from the recent Mario movie. So we’ll have to wait for the sequel to come out and he’ll qualify then even though it’s not until 2026.
But what if I told you, I surprisingly found one from a adaptation of the live action movie.
Whats the Work?
Super Mario Bros. (1993) Super Mario Bros. was a 1993 in name only movie adaptation of the popular video game franchise featuring the titular, Mario, Bros rescuing Daisy from the clutches of King Koopa and free dinohatten from his tyranny who obviously is a non-keep due to being a well intentioned extremist.
Surprisingly enough, Ive managed to find a manga adaptation one shot Dubbed Super Mario Goddess of the Demon World Empire which can be read here.
Note in this proposal I’m talking about the manga version not the movie one.
One of the main changes is that some characters are omitted from the story along with the story itself being a bit shorter but the biggest one is Koopa getting a dose of Adaptational Villainy.
Who is King Koopa What has he done?
King Koopa like in the film the tyrannical ruler of Dinohattan. Who plans to merge the two dimensions together with a meteorite and conquer the surface world
Prior to the story’s events Koopa ousted the rightful king and it’s implied he turned him into fungus against his will.
Koopa creates an army by forcibly devolving the subjects into mindless subservient goombas.
Daisys mother who opposed king koopa flight to the surface world with her newborn baby who would grow up to be Princess Daisy.
When Iggy and Spike fail to get the rock from the Mario Bros Koopa blasts them with his de-evolution gun with Iggy and spike begging them not to.
Koopa then decides to invade earth and de-evolve the human race.
Koopa is revealed to have daisy in his clutches demanding that the bros show up to give him the rock pendent or Daisy dies.
Mario secretly gives him an exploding mushroom instead threatening to use another one on him but by then the merge has already begun.
King Koopa and his army of goombas finally arrive at the surface world at the same time the fungus on his hand disappears Koopa and his army immediately fire the guns at every human in sight turning them into helpless monkeys.
Mario throws another exploring mushroom only to end up throwing a regular mushroom instead leading to Koopa attempting to fire at Mario.
Luckily Luigi and Daisy remove the rock with Mario and Koopa transported back into Dinohatten, Mario throws an exploding mushroom again severing one of his arms and legs But Koopa is able to regenerate.
Finally Mario gets the de-evolution gun from one of his arms blasting him with His own weapon devolving Koopa into an amoeba ending his reign of terror with Daisy undoing the merge and Mario vowing to use the gun to turn the population back to normal.
Migrating Factors?
None at all unlike in the film he isn’t showing to be caring about his people and he lacks any funny moments like ordering a pizza.
And he’s portrayed as nothing more than standard tyrant.
Does he meet the Heinous Standard?
Koopa is the standard. The manga is its own separate canon so the standard it’s is own.
Commits all the same crimes he did in the film with the addition of turning Iggy and Spike into mindless Goombas for failing to retrieve the rock
Overthrowing the original king turning him into fungus
Threatening to destroy Daisy if Mario and Luigi don’t give him the rock.
Turns his subjects into Goombas.
Tries to merge the dimensions together in a catastrophic manner.
Add his most heinous act is once he arrives to the surface world he and his army start blasting the evolution gun at every human in sight into monkeys.
Final Verdict?
For the first time in the history of the franchise we finally have a CM incarnation of Bowser from an official work.
Can I get an amen?
Edited by Godwriter on Apr 9th 2024 at 11:36:40 AM
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Ultimate Moral Compass
So having just glanced over the manga, I… don’t think he keeps.
Koopa mainly just talks about his plan to Daisy, and because it’s a very abridged retelling of the movie, not much attention is drawn to stuff like Dinosaur City’s corruption. Even turning Spike and Iggy into Goombas is kind of glanced over.
Simply put, while he may not have redeeming qualities, Koopa still isn’t portrayed as the absolute monster that the proposal makes him out to be. He’s just a standard bad guy.
"No running in the halls!"
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Koopa
There's a lot of "He turns people into Goombas" or "Changes someone into fungus" which I'm... kinda doubting is played for the horror the EP is trying to suggest. I'm gonna follow suit with Jackie's vote here.
Nay to the Koopa king
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Bowser. (Edit, or not.)
I THINK Catherine may JUST push past baseline enough.
Edited by ACW on Apr 9th 2024 at 2:52:09 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Now I know some a lot of you were disappointed that we couldn’t get a CM version of Bowser from the recent Mario movie. So we’ll have to wait for the sequel to come out and he’ll qualify then even though it’s not until 2026."
Not only do I highly doubt that the sequel to the recent Mario movie will get rid of his comedy issues, I wouldn't be surprised if the sequel makes him way more comedic.
to King Koopa.
Edited by Evanpotter09 on Apr 9th 2024 at 7:52:40 PM
What, like it's hard?
A humbled version of Halara Nightmare
Nikson's version of Golden Freddy has a character, he's the cause of everything in that whole game. He is still evil. Just because it's not visible doesn't mean it's not there or that he has anything to mitigate it.
Denial is a weakness. A WEAKNESS.
Sure to Ivo.