Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Black Knight, Punisher Duo, Mr. Harraby, and Astor
Jogo
Yes to the Black Knight, Kincaid, Jake Hernandez, The Life has No Meaning Without You Duo, Astor and and easy yes for both The Punisher Duo and Harraby
Edit:![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
To another Version of Old Scratch Himself
Edited by jlvs200s on Jan 5th 2024 at 4:42:13 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Not the Eye
Have some more horror comics proposals.
What is the work?
The Beyond is 1950’s horror anthology published by Ace Magazines. It tells over 200 short stories in 30 issues, so there are bound to be some baddies who make the leap.
From issue 10 story “Release from Satan’s Scourge”
Who is Satan? What has he done?
Ruler of evil who wants to estabilish his dominion on Earth. Satan set him demons lose to the Dukedom of Coltshire, witches used humans corpses for their brewing pots, demons burned humans alive , or just killed them, nobody was safe. Until Black Duke used magic to imprison Satan and his demons in the book, promising to return should they even be freed.
800 years later, Castle Black was to be used as setting for movie about Middle Ages. Duke’s descendant Victoria and Gil Jenkins, backrounds expert, venture into Black castle. They find the book, but skepical Jenkins frees Satan and his minions one by one by repeating incantations that imprisoned them. Satan sets his demons to kill plentiful descendants of Black Duke, while Satan plans to burn the book and ensure nobody can stop him from eternally torturing humanity. He lets Gil live so he could see what his medling has brought forth, mistake as he and Victoria find Duke’s grave and sommon his ghost. Satan and his army are defeated as Duke burns the book to make sure they are gone for good.
Reddeming factors?
No.
Heinous standard?
He plots to bring Hell on Earth and reduce humanity to playthings for him and his demons, plus unleashing his minions on countless descendants of his enemy. Comic definetelly has some nasty baddies in it, but Satan stands head and shoulders above pretty much everyone else.
Conclusion.
Easy Yes.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jan 5th 2024 at 5:53:06 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Satan.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Satan.
Yay more Satan CMs!!! Let's push it to the 100th!! 20 more to go!!
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Jan 5th 2024 at 10:52:42 PM
Yes to Satan
Ultimate Moral Compass
Satan
- Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water - The Motion Picture: Geigar is a scientist who hopes to surpass the late Lord Gargoyle’s plan to conquer the world. Kidnapping various politicians, generals, and capitalists and keeping them stored away as brains in jars, Geiger has robotic replicas replace them, hoping to use them to launch a world war that will see two-fifths of the world’s population wiped out, and Geigar crowned the Earth’s new leader by uniting the remaining populace under his command. Regularly killing his own men for failing him, Geigar’s self-entitled claims of being the only one who can lead the human race belie a sadistic megalomaniac who desires control over everybody.
Satan
- Time Salvager duology by Wesley Chu:
- Senior Securitate Kuo Masaki-Europa is a cold, ruthless member of the Valta Corporation's special forces who believes that corporations should be the future of humanity. Tasked with capturing Elise Kim for Valta, Kuo clashes with Auditor Levin's more restrained approach, unconcerned with any possible civilian casualties. Kuo later tortures Smitt for information before killing him out of annoyance. After Kuo takes command of the manhunt and realizes that Elise is hiding among the tribes of Manhattan, Kuo decides to systematically conquer the island building by building to search for her, killing dozens to hundreds every building and enslaving the survivors afterwards by using their loved ones as hostages while driving out anyone she can't use to cause a refugee crisis among the other tribes. After learning of Elise's location at the All-Galaxy building, Kuo leads an assault on the building, resulting in thousands of casualties before managing to capture and get away with Elise.
- Cole Javier-Oberon is Auditor Levin's self-centered nephew. After ditching being a chronman to hide in the past and being arrested and sent to prison by his uncle, Cole became the leader of the Apex gang, where they regularly beat new inmates and rules through fear. Cole is then broken out with Levin, and then joins the unified tribes of Manhattan. Cole then later goes along with Levin to overthrow ChronoCom's administration, Cole uses this as an opportunity to sell out the All-Galaxy building for his own gain, allowing Kuo to lead her brutal assault on the building. Cole then later tries to stop Levin's uprising and tries to kill his uncle and recklessly attacks his own men during his charges.
Not the Eye
My second post from the Beyond, from issue 23 story “Minion of the Bloody Horsemen”.
Who is Hans Richter? What has he done?
S.S Colonel whose service in Nazi army during World War 2 earned him maniker “Butcher of Rome” until he was captured and sentences to gallows by hidgest Italian tribunal. Wishing to die honorably, Hans tried to ask for death by firing squad. When it failed he escaped while being led to execution. Falling into the hole in desolate Rome, he wastransported to ancient Rome and greeted by Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. He acceptes their offer to become their servant and was promised that Horsemen would help him in his conquests.
Using his pact with Horsemen, he almost organises rebbelion in Rome, earning him audience with the Emperor. Hans’s demands are simple, give him Legion for the campaing in Africa and when he returns, hand of Emperor’s daugther. Richer sets fort, bringing deaths and destruction across the Africa, razing and plundering cities and at one point ordering death of crowd of starving people who asked him for bread. Until plague kills half of his legion. Richter sails back to Rome and horribly mistreats the roving slaves on the way, threathing to throw them into sea in he is unsatisfied with their work.
Finaly coming to Rome, Richter leans horrible plague has struck it as well, Emperor’s daugther among the infected. Rejecting her as dissease riden freak, Richter kills the Emperor and proclaims he dosen’t need Horsemen anymore, claiming he will conquer Rome with his army. Only for angry mob to chase him, driving him back into the hole where he first met Horsemen and stoning him to death, before he is brought back to present and his corpse found by Italian soldiers.
Reddeming qualities?
He is bloodthirsty bastard who openly admits he will serve any master for power, having no problem with Horsemen’s evil until ot starts affecting his path to power. Even his wish for honorable death is simply matter of pride.
Heinous standard?
His career as Nazi earned him maniker of butcher of Rome, with glimpses of his campaings in Africa with Four Horsemen giving him firm patern of mass destruction and death. While Horsemen wreak their share on evil on the way, Richter is just normal human who already has history of mass murder before he became their agent and good amount of nasty evil on his own, on top of being fully informed disaster and ruin will follow him whatever he goes and not caring as long as he get to rule Rome.
Conclusion?
Yes.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Hans Richter
Richter
Goku Black
Satan and Richter
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Richter
Anyway I have a mythology candidate I’d like to propose
What’s the work?
Kabyle Mythology is the mythology of the Amazigh, or Berber people of the Kabylia region located in northern Algeria, some of the myths have been mixed with some European myths over the years, so keep in mind there might be some inconsistencies here.
Who is she and what has she done?
Settut, or Settuta, (the Amazigh word for evil witch) also known as Immas n Tadwit, is the Berber goddess of evil and chaos, as well as the "First Mother of the World" whom everyone is said to be descended from.
Settut was originally a benevolent creator goddess who created the sun and moon by throwing the eyelid of the primordial bull and ram, respectively, before she found out she was sterile which she could not fix no matter how much magic she tried, including sacrificing women and children, making the stars out of their bones when that failed.
After this she became bitter and jealous of the world and decided to destroy it out of spite, creating a whole bunch of natural phenomena in the process like floods, storms, and eclipses (for these eclipses she would demand a Human Sacrifice to make it go away, with a preference for it to be a child) Settut also introduced humans to envy and greed causing them to rob, enslave, murder, and wage wars against each other.
Settut also created several animals just as a sick joke, like turning a boy into a monkey just because he made a mistake in cooking, created the sheep, later creating a wolf just so she could watch the sheep be eaten, and created the turtle by squishing a calf in between two rocks.
Along the way she created a palace made of bones of all her victims, which she counted the number of as she waits for the world to come to an end.
Redeeming qualities?
Her Freudian Excuse is that she couldn’t have kids.
Yeah… that’s about it, other than that no redeeming qualities there, and it’s clear she does a lot of these things For the Evulz
When some humans try to burn her for the things she did she runs away. I don’t think that’s a redeeming quality, but thought it would be worth mentioning.
Heinousness?
Was single handily responsible for all the misery of humanity and wants to destroy the world, especially with her preferred victims being children, she pretty much blows the standard out of the water.
The only other really heinous character in the myths is the human eater Teryel, and she lacks the omnicidal goals of Settut.
Final verdict?
Methinks a keeper
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Not the Eye
Jogo
Hans Richter and Settut
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Leaning yes, but...how much is that Freudian Excuse delved into?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
settut
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It’s not delved into that much given this is mythology, and most of the sources I read say that it was out of envy and spite more than despair or anything else.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hans
Yes to Settut
Edited by Phantom25 on Jan 5th 2024 at 3:40:31 AM