Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright first rewrite batch. This is from NCIS. Thought I'd folderise so it's easier for you guys to read and doesn't bloat the page up. Moved this because it was at the bottom of the page and I don't want it getting buried.
- "Mind Games": Kyle Thomas Boone was a Serial Killer responsible for over 20 deaths. When he was twelve years old, he murdered his mother, and later devoted himself to starting a career in killing women. He would torture them to death, carve a heart shape in their backs, and would often take their tongues as trophies; he claimed these tongues were his "favorite sexual organs". When he was finally sentenced to be executed by the electric chair, Boone attempted to stay his execution and formulated a plan that involved setting up his lawyer Adam O'Neill as a copycat killer; Adam then kidnapped Agent Cassidy and attempted to torture her to death, though he failed. Boone was also convinced to take the families of his victims to the sites where their loved ones were disposed of. He took them all the way to a Virginia farm, only to dampen their hopes by showing that there was nothing in the barn other than the severed tongues of his victims.
- "Smoked": Karen Bright appeared to be a grieving widow and loving mother, but is later revealed to be much more disturbed. In truth, she is a Serial Killer who has killed many women, usually who look like her, in very brutal fashions either by slashing their throats or stabbing them repeatedly in the chest. She would then take the toes of her victims before burying the victims in her backyard. She has done this to 19 women and shows no remorse, guilt, and mercy for doing so, even taking sexual pleasure from it. It is also revealed that she killed her husband once he discovered her murders, all while cutting off her own toes to make him look like the killer. Once she is caught and gives an utterly terrifying Death Glare toward NCIS Agent Leroy Jethro Gibbs and FBI Agent Tobias Fornell, they are left utterly stunned on how quickly she went from crying to glaring.
- "Alleged": Louis Wexler was a Commander in the United States Navy who used his high-ranking title to rape the female personnel under his command. He does so by accompanying them to a bar and buying them a round of drinks, then dosing the drinks with sedatives before dragging them to their respective homes and raping them while they were unconscious. He has done this to nearly a dozen women, and those are just the women that came fourth. When confronted with the overwhelming evidence against him, instead of taking responsibility for his actions, he tries to blame the victims, all while claiming to be the innocent one, much to the team's disgust.
- "The Lost Boys" through "Stop the Bleeding: Daniel Budd is the leader of the Calling, a terrorist group responsible for recruiting children through the Internet for the purpose of turning them into terrorists or suicide bombers. Those he turns to terrorism are sent to kill several naval agents, while those he turns into suicide bombers blow themselves up in highly-populated areas; he sent a young boy to blow himself up at Cairo, Egypt, killing dozens, because an NCIS agent was located there. When the adoptive parents of a young boy try to convince him to leave the Calling, he has them killed. When one child is arrested, Budd has him killed just so he won't say anything. He then uses an adopted child to try to kill Agent Leroy Jethro Gibbs, with his next plan to destroy Shanghai and make it look like the North Koreans. His reasons for doing all of this was to kick-start a war simply because he wanted to kill thousands.
- "Déjà Vu": Adam Connors was a former NSA analyst who, along with Agent Eleanor Bishop and FBI Agent Daisy Milner, took down a group of Human Traffickers named Concubine. Adam, however, became greedy and recreates Concubine by kidnapping young college girls before beating them and leaving them in horrific conditions, tied up and threatening their families. Adam has those who resist personally executed before chipping the girls with GPS tags and selling them to international clients as sex slaves. After Daisy comes close to the truth, Adam kills her and creates a fake trail of evidence to exonerate him before trying to gun down Bishop after she finds out the truth.
- "Mind Games": Kyle Thomas Boone is a Serial Killer who's responsible for over 20 deaths. Murdering his mother when he was twelve, Kyle took himself to start butchering women, torturing them to death and taking their tongues as a trophy for himself. Sentenced to be executed, Kyle formulates a plan with his lawyer Adam O'Neill to have him kidnap Agent Cassidy and torture her to death. Sadistically petty, Kyle takes the families of his victims to where he committed his murders for closure before revealing that all there was, was the tongues of his victims.
- "Smoked": Karen Bright is a seemingly innocent widow and a loving mother who hides a disturbed personality. A sadistic Serial Killer, Karen would target women who look like her and murder them by either repeatedly stabbing them or slicing their throats. When her victims are dead, Karen would remove the toes of her victims, taking sexual pleasure with her crimes. When her husband discovers her crimes, Karen kills him and frames him for her murders while she gets away it. With 19 deaths to her name for no discernible reason, Karen stands out as one of the worst the NCIS team have faced.
- "Alleged": Louis Wexler is a commander within the United States Navy who abuses his title to rape the female personnel under his command. After buying a victim a round of drinks, Louis would spike the drinks with sedatives and drag his victims to their homes and rape their unconscious bodies. When confronted with the evidence of over a dozen rapes, Louis shifts the blame to his victims, not showing any guilt for his crimes.
- "The Lost Boys" through "Stop the Bleeding": Daniel Budd is the leader of The Calling, a terrorist group which recruits children for the purpose of twisting them into terrorists. Daniel would have children corrupted by his cult either commit acts of terrorism such as murdering several agents or have them blow themselves up in highly populated areas. When one of the children get arrested, Daniel has his killed so he wouldn't say anything. Daniel's ultimate plan was to destroy Shanghai and pin the blame on the North Koreans, purely because he wanted to kill thousands.
- "Déjà Vu": Adam Connors is a former NSA analyst who's primary goal is to line his own pockets. Recreating the methods of a human trafficking ring he once took down, Adam would have college girls kidnapped and brutalised in horrific conditions with any that resist murdered. When one of his former partners, Daisy Milner comes close to unrevealing the truth, Adam kills her, also later attempting to kill his other former partner Eleanor Bishop for discovering the truth.
Thoughts?
Edited by WetFlannels on Dec 14th 2022 at 3:35:18 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Those rewrites seem good.
Also I've got an old comic book writeup of mine I badly want to rewrite.
- Mysterius the Unfathomable, by Jeff Parker & Tom Fowler: Vinton Dulac is a Satanist cult leader seeking the power of immortality and godhood, committing suicide in the 60s and reviving himself as an immortal sorcerer through the orgy rites of his followers. Resurfacing in the 70s under the name of James Jones and establishing a mass suicide of over 1,000 people to further empower himself, Dulac sends his forces to capture Mysterius the sorcerer in revenge for having been laughed off decades ago, killing many along the way. Finally revealing himself as Arian Rhode, Dulac uses an army of dozens of innocents he's transformed into draugr minions to massacre a group of hippies around a wicker man he intends to use to complete his ascension, burning alive every sorcerer and magician in the world who could even potentially compromise his plans to ascend to godhood, throw away even his loyal cult, and rewrite all reality according to his will.
Run-on sentences (particularly the last one, which goes nearly half the goddamned entry without using a period) weird syntax, and I just don't like the flow. Lemme:
- Mysterius the Unfathomable, by Jeff Parker & Tom Fowler: Vinton Dulac is a nebulous cult leader who has gone under the names "Arian Rhode" and, more infamously, "James Jones." A Godhood Seeker with a chip on his shoulder ever since the legendary magician Mysterius laughed him and his grandiose ambitions off, Dulac spent decades building up an underground following while killing anyone in his way. He reduces dozens of people in his way into undead draugr, who shred their way through a community of hippies gathered through a wicker man Dulac intends to use as the centerpiece of his final scheme. Having gathered every sorcerer in the world in the wicker man—even the petty magicians—Deulac intends to burn them all alive in a ritual meant to fuel his ascension to godhood, all so he can rewrite reality to his whims.
Any thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 14th 2022 at 8:00:02 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Likewise there.
Cut Hathaway and Rooker And ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the NCIS and Dulac re-writes
Edited by G-Editor on Dec 14th 2022 at 5:17:34 AM
I noticed an apparent unapproved entry for the infamous playwrite Sarah Kane in her play Cleansed that I only came across from casually browsing the Mohs Scale Of Violence Hardness and scrolling to the most violent works out of morbid curiousity. The entry seems very short and inexact as well.
- Tinker is in charge of a "university" that's more like a concentration camp or a Bedlam House mental asylum, controlling every aspect of his victim's lives and subjecting them to the most horrific humiliations and violations imaginable.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Cut the Darkman duo
Scrag’s rewrite
Also if we’re all in agreement we can probably get rid of the Darkman page… it’ll just be six examples left.
Cut the Darkman duo.
Yeah, I'd agree with dissolving the page since there aren't enough Darkman keepers for it now.
Goku Black
NCIS rewrites.
Cut the Darkman duo.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut the Darkman guys
So I was looking at Arrowverse and noticed under Legends of Tomorrow, Mallus (who is a season Big Bad) has a smaller entry than the other two keepers, who are both minor villains.
- Season 3: Mallus is an ancient demon who attempted to break apart the timestream, at which point he was sealed by the Zambesi people to stop him. Reaching out from his prison, Mallus attempts to inspire enough fractures in time to free himself, promising to torture all humankind to death while possessing Nora Dahrk. Achieving his freedom, Mallus intends to eradicate all time and reality, first trying to destroy the Zambesi and torture the Legends for his own satisfaction.
Would it be okay if I give him a slight expansion?
Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 14th 2022 at 10:01:38 AM
I'd like to bring up Scourge from Warrior Cats. While he definitely has no redeeming factors in The Prophecies Begin, the tie-in manga Rise of Scourge elaborates on his backstory and motivations, including a Pet the Dog moment.
When his siblings Ruby and Socks, who had been abusive dicks to him growing up, come to him begging for help getting food after being abandoned by their human owners, he feeds them even though he complains that his own cats barely have enough to go around. This is not early on in his backstory: by this point he was wearing a collar absolutely covered in the teeth of various dogs and cats he'd killed, and had committed to ruling BloodClan through fear.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Snowy does he do anymore to justify an expansion?
@Orbiting Is the tie in manga Canon?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
^ Yes, all the tie-in mangas for Warrior Cats are canon.
Any more feedback on my Ozai rewrite? Or is it good to go?
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Mmm, good point. Scourge did take mercy on his siblings.
He also gave the Clans three days to surrender or prepare for battle.
Scourge holds back on occasion.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
@Wet Flannels, yeah a lot of stuff. Off the top of my head: having his cult murder enough men for a blood ritual, sending Grodd to attack places throughout history, including destroying the Great Wall of China, killing Kuasa by ripping out the water totem .etc
Edited by Snowy66 on Dec 14th 2022 at 10:41:06 AM
Professor Gigachad
From what I know Scourge was proposed by Klavice who has a rather poor track record with proposals and especially Warrior Cats so that is honestly probably something that should be looked into.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I like the Ozai rewrite, Shadao. It reads much better than the current one.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The only other Warriors CM is Brokenstar, and don't worry, he's definitely a keeper.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
@Snowy I'm not gonna be opposed to any additions if they're notable
Does Scourge ever subvert his care for his brothers?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
The last we see of Ruby and Socks is Scourge ordering for them to be escorted from his territory when they're done eating, and warning them not to return.
Edited by Orbiting on Dec 14th 2022 at 2:01:34 PM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
And is that the last we ever hear or see them?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
To my knowledge that's their last on-screen appearance; the only other time they're mentioned is in The Ultimate Guide, and it's extremely brief, just a few sentences about their poor treatment of Scourge when they were kittens in its section on Scourge.
Cut the two Scraggle suggested.