Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Just wanna say, I am sorry if the topic of discussion for Colin being repeated was uncomfortable for anyone.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Cut Colin and the reporter (though song slaps, I had been feeling from some time that it was really a TV crew or news media as a whole rather than a single person) and abstaining on Jack
I have potentials:
Randall Flagg: As for the end of the universe… I say let it come as it will, in ice, fire, or darkness. What did the universe ever do for me that I should mind its welfare?
Crimson King: The thrill of a thousand worlds dying at once, but my ultimate goal lies beyond the downfall.
"The Crimson King speaks. As a direct rule, somewhere a slumbering, dreaming infant shudders and dies."
Cut Colin
Best Smile
Cut Jack and Colin.
I like the second Crimson King quote.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Goku Black
I like the Flagg quote Tbh.
@wet:It's okay. It's not your fault.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Mark me as an Abstain on Colin. Don't worry, Wet. Candidates get cut practically every Tuesday, so there's really nothing for people to get upset over.
Feels good, don't it?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I think the Blue Stahli Shoot 'Em Up reporter had enough consensus to cut. I did come up with the interpretation that the "we" in the lyrics could mean "me and my employees", but that still feels far-fetched compared to the much more likely interpretation that "we" refers to news media as a whole.
Cut Colin.
While I do agree with Jack being cut, I don’t agree that it’s because he isn’t heinous enough. The Shrek franchise overall has a pretty small heinous standard all things considered with most villains in the franchise having very bog-standard “try to kill the heroes” villainy or rely too much on Fridge Horror with the very few exceptions being Jack Horner himself (given that he actually has a confirmed kill count at all) and Bloodwolf.
Edited by Fireball246 on Mar 1st 2023 at 4:00:11 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So if Jack's cut, for the reason I'll put both arguably not heinous enough AND arguably not taken seriously enough.
That song candidate seems like a cut; what about Driscoll?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb / Temporary Kylo
@Fireball
And Humpty.
It's a moot point anyways. Sense Jack will be cut either way. Atleast we have his novel counterpart.
Edited by Snoketrope on Mar 1st 2023 at 4:13:06 AM
The First man
RIP Toriyama
Yeah, honestly I think Jack's final goal being expanded upon in the novel really pushes that one past any heinous arguments and I can see why the concerns are there for the film one since he's mostly "Bad Boss with a vague Take Over the World scheme". Earnestly the film one might not even count by heinousness since he has to compete with Rumpelstiltskin who is unequivocally the most evil character in the films and really only doesn't count cuz of his damn goose, so I'm way more comfy with the novel one than even the film one with that in account.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 1st 2023 at 4:15:16 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
The wifi here sucks
Yeah, Fifi the goose is really the only thing holding Rumpelstiltskin back. The novel version of Jack is definitely more on his level admittedly.
We were very civil about how we went about it this time and regardless of the outcome, we should all be proud of that.
RIP Toriyama
Papyru, I'm not interested in getting in a scuffle over this, and I'm sorry you felt that way, but you're blatantly fabricating facts.
Here I said I was fine with people voting No, just not to use the video as a deciding factor
.
Here I said, again, I am fine with No votes, just not to vote purely based on the video
.
Point to one instance in any of these posts where I "accused you" of voting solely on the video, point to one instance where I said you or others hadn't read the EP. I not once said nor even implied that. I said "not to take the vid as proof or evidence" while repeatedly noting it was directed towards anyone who hadn't watched the movie and was just looking at the clip and basing their judgment on that. If that level of indirect confrontation is enough to upset you and make you feel as though you were attacked, then I profusely apologize, but it was not, I assure you, from any direct intention on my part. If you wanna take this to PMs, I'm more than open, but I won't have you lie about my actions on a public forum.
I'm now considering the topic closed, and would like us to move on. EDIT: Even moreso now that the post has been thumped, gonna strike this and just reiterate: move on.
Edited by Ravok on Mar 1st 2023 at 5:20:41 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
The request to not base the evidence on meme videos only came after Mir directly linked to said video and said they were downvoting based on that. That was not 'no evidence'.
![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
Edited by Snoketrope on Mar 1st 2023 at 5:04:05 AM
The First man
Honestly, I'm going to vote cut for Jack Horner. When I saw Puss in Boots 2: The Last Wish in cinemas, I kinda knew he was too comedic to be a Complete Monster.
I know this may be a bit off-topic to ask, but isn’t another reason for why Rumpelstiltskin was prevented from CM besides his care for Fifi also because he’s also a bit too comedic like Jack?
Edited by Fireball246 on Mar 1st 2023 at 5:42:06 AM
RIP Toriyama
Nah, Rumpel is more serious than Jack so if Jack is only barely getting cut for being too goofy, Rumpel would be fine by my estimates. I'd say it's purely Fifi that keeps him off.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Maybe? It's hard to guess hypotheticals such as that.
EDIT:Ravok covered it.
Edited by Snoketrope on Mar 1st 2023 at 5:50:10 AM
The First man
I'm confused. Who doesn't have their own writeup — Pennywise or Stephen King?
The miniseries version doesn't have its own, it was deemed too similar to the OG version to not need one
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Oh. I thought you were talking about the book version, which was what had me confused since that Pennywise has been floating down here for years.
Is that still the case with the miniseries version of Pennywise, or does he warrant his own EP?
So I have an unfortunate but also belated cut: from the Monster.Tales Series subpage, Cody Hjuger from Tales of Crestoria needs to go. While the guy is absolutely disgusting - as a big fan of the series, he's one of the only Tales villains to ever actually make my skin crawl (raising orphaned kids to sell to pedophiles and organ harvesters tends to do that) - as soon as I began watching videos of the game's story I didn't agree with his EP's premise that he doesn't actually care about his son Kanata. Apart from a single possible Kick the Dog line - and one that the manga adaptation that's started coming out after the game was cancelled gets rid of in favor of something even grosser but also less ambiguous - his reaction to Kanata finding out about his crimes and eventually killing him is consistently genuine bafflement that Kanata would actually think of the orphans as people, or in general feel anything other than pride that he stands to inherit a "prosperous family business."
However, the matter of interpretation there ultimately winds up being moot, because Chapters 6 and 7 of the game reveal that Cody had another kid, his daughter Sonia, who suffers from diseased-induced blindness, and he's been raising her separately in a village with a healing spring and sending much of the profit from his trafficking ring towards treatments for her. Now, there's no real indication this is his only motive or overall particularly redeeming - in fact the climax of the first half of the arc involves Sonia being talked down from a vengeful rage towards Kanata by being told, in part, that her father was "a devil" who deserved to die by two of his former victims (one of whom, incidentally, also hates Kanata's guts, which kinda says something) - but it's also made explicit that the kindness he treated her with was absolutely genuine.
I've considered bringing this up a couple of times before, but just never felt like making the effort (I'm only doing it now because I'm rewatching the game now that the manga's finally coming out). But that's as clear a disqualifying feature as I can imagine.
Actually has anyone whose read the book can confirm if the current is from the book version of IT as well?
Looking online. Seems to be confused on this point.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."