The NRLEP and LRLEO criteria

There's actually been a process to add reasons to the pages through sandboxes, so, that's already in motion. ~Miss Conduct seems to have handled the bulk of it.

Good to hear. Thanks MC and Jay.

It's kinda late, I know, but I think ditching the categories was a disastrously bad decision and it should have been crownered first instead of being decided by mod fiat. There's so many tropes there that basically have the same reason for being NRLEP and forcing them to all be stuck alphabetically is making the page cluttered and worse, it's forcing every listed example to be less detailed, which is going to ultimately lead to more time wasted on the main thread by people coming to the thread to ask for explanations.

It's also essentially invalidating all the hard work I (and others) have done on the explanation sandboxes. NRLEP Sex With Explanations, for example, is what I think the ideal NRLEP page should look like - it's concise, well-formatted, and doesn't need to re-explain the concept of NRLEP on every trope.

Edited by MissConduct on Aug 21st 2023 at 10:53:57 AM

It's not invalid, if you'd read the last messages on the last thread, the mods are keeping the already-provided reasons. We aren't getting rid of that. We're just ditching the requirement for everything to fit a specific category page so that people can focus on objectively present problems and not, say, whether or not something qualifies as fitting a specific, arbitrarily defined category (especially since the category creation was unilateral to begin with).

If anything this makes detailed reasons more of a necessity. There's technically no reason to have to explain why a trope is "impossible IRL" if it's already on that page, but now such reasons will be much more important (and we'd have reason to discuss anything we can't justify, as not everything on the indexes was added correctly).

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 21st 2023 at 11:06:27 AM

I never understood the point of those sandboxes, but I don't see why not add "Sexuality, " to every note in that one.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 21st 2023 at 7:36:40 PM

Well, if we do that, then we're not really getting rid of the subcategories, we're just getting rid of the subpages.

Kinda the point, but allowing custom messages.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 22nd 2023 at 5:47:37 PM

The subpages are the categories. Adding that a trope was NRLEP'ed because it was a morality trope just provides the reason why.

I already said we're still giving reasons for why a trope was made NRLEP. We're just changing how tropes are sorted. And I wouldn't call this something done by mod fiat if I asked others whether it was a good idea before giving permission to do it, with multiple people agreeing to it.

And to expand on what WarJay said about how NRLEP candidates should be nominated in the future, focusing on the specifics of why a trope should be NRLEP by pointing out what's problematic, rather than just name-dropping the trope with a canned reason for why something should be NRLEP and leaving it at that, would be preferable.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 22nd 2023 at 11:17:22 AM

That subject has come up in the past, and we already have one type of partial ban on real life examples via real life sections having No Recent Examples, Please! restrictions instead of having real life examples completely forbidden, so I wouldn't have a problem with partial bans based on example type instead of example age. I think it should get an index separate from the NRLEP indexes due to NRLEP's name reflecting it being part of an all-or-nothing approach, but maybe Some Real Life Examples Only would work.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 10th 2024 at 3:52:09 AM

Seeing as the "Real Life section maintenance" thread is the "Real Life section maintenance" thread rather than the "No Real Life Examples Please" thread as some users seem to think, I believe it would be perfectly within scope of that thread to use it to remove only a certain category of real life examples if that category is the only thing that's causing a problem.

to using the Real Life section maintenance thread for such decisions

I think it wouldn't hurt the NRLEP index to include pages with partial bans - disallowing examples of X type of work or X category of things (rather than "all of them") is still a No Real Life Examples, Please! restriction. List the article and explain in the index entry what is banned.

And if a TLP sponsor includes a partial ban of RL examples on a proposed trope and the trope launches, that's also a way to restrict some examples.

I’m against caveats and exceptions and partial bans when it comes to NRLEP.

Edited by BoltDMC on Jan 10th 2024 at 8:26:05 AM

Why? I think it's fine on a case-by-case basis

I think continuing to use the Real Life section maintenance thread for these decisions would be fine. We could just put on crowner options for tropes whether they're being proposed for full bans or partial bans.

Edit: I previously brought up Safe Word as an example of a trope that was removed from NRLEP due to NRLEP's all-or-nothing aspect conflicting with that trope's existing partial ban. It already has a ban on sexual real life examples while allowing other types of real life examples (mentioned in the description), so I think it could go on an index for partial bans without having to go on a crowner again.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 10th 2024 at 12:06:44 PM

So, so we need a Crowner to formalise that scope decision for the other thread?

Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 11th 2024 at 12:10:06 PM

I think that would be a good idea.

It's been three days. I think it's safe to call this one.

I'm honestly surprised that partial NRLEP bans haven't been implemented in the first place. Some tropes like Body Horror (which I thought the animal examples were fine) and Overshadowed by Controversy (which some of the folders for RL examples are Flame Bait and off-mission, like places and political examples) could really use that.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 21st 2024 at 12:45:42 PM

After a different mod brought up the newly launched trope brought up in this post, I mentioned the possibility of amending the policy to allow newly launched tropes that weren't preemptively made NRLEP pre-launch to be made NRLEP via the Real Life cleanup thread, but only within a certain amount of time (after which the usual rules would apply instead), and I decided to bring it up here for feedback.

If we had a crowner for whether to allow that, it would have to wait until after the current crowner is done tomorrow, though I was thinking the next crowner for this thread should be for deciding what to call the index for partial bans. Does Administrivia.Some Real Life Examples Only work? (I don't remember if I brought up that name suggestion in this thread; I might have only mentioned it to the other mods.)

Edit: OK, I checked and my name suggestion for the new index was brought up earlier on this page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 21st 2024 at 6:10:26 AM