Fan works and media classification

Is Lupin III' classified on any of those indexes, since it's the poster child for the point Crazy is making? If not, then clearly no, people don't actually care about digging that deeply into it. Unless it's clearly labeled as a fic nobody will really lose sleep over if it is. The only reason it matters so much now is because of the sorting thing; otherwise it'd be like most indexes and people would add what they feel fits and if something that should be on there isn't, oh well.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I could make the same case for the Media Categories, we just let people add whatever they feel fits to the category, if its perfectly fine for these indexes then it shouldn't make any difference if we do it for media categories.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

Well, I get what you mean but I disagree there since media categories are specifically for on-page sorting while indexes are for navigational purposes. My point isn't that people should just put things wherever, but that unless there's any evidence that anyone currently cares about figuring out the ambiguous cases, there's no reason to think it'd affect much of anything if the namespace went away. It'd be the same as it is now, with ambiguous cases left off most of the time, and that's not a big deal. People would obviously still sort blatant fanfic examples as fanfic on the index.

So no, I don't think it's as big a problem as you're saying it would be.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 17th 2022 at 8:08:56 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I don't think that would really mean anything since most people are still not in favor of getting rid of the fanfic namespace, and neither are most in favor of getting rid of the Fan Works media category (and no changing it to fanfic is not an option due to fan art). I know you are but most aren't.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

...I'm not saying it means anything, I was just responding to your argument, lol, at this point in time I really, sincerely, could not care less about this fanfic thing. In a perfect world where all wiki problems could be resolved with the click of a button then yes I'd vouch for removing the namespace but it's more trouble than it's worth.

But please stop claiming this position is a minority one since no matter how often you bring it up it still remains to be seen? Like I said I'm honestly very much over this whole debate and I'm well aware that nothing will actually change... but seriously dude this exact point has been debunked multiple times before so I don't know why you keep saying it's true.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Alright, sorry, I didn't realize that was what you were trying to get at. I have no idea what we can do now, this thread died off and it being reopened has brought us nowhere.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 17th 2022 at 5:28:34 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

IDK. I gave up around the time I decided that even if I'd personally not have split the fanfic examples off, changing it now would be such a task that I'd be better off, y'know, spending my time fixing other things.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I am wondering if it would be better to just close this thread, since it seems that nobody really wants to do anything, and the opinions are so divisive.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

I mean, this was just open for discussion because it was spun off an ATT thread. I didn't think we were actually planning on doing anything regarding the Fanfic/Literature thing. Given the fact that we have had this conversation. Before this thread was bumped, it was just resting so we can just leave it alone if conversation is going nowhere.

Macron's notes

At any rate, i don't think anyone was suggesting actually changing anything, including me— the only suggested action so far has been that we could take an informational poll to determine if there is actually a large majority that want Fan works distinct from originals or not, since that's been brought up by both sides and we don't actually know what the general preference is. And i only suggested that because this debate has been had several times before and it keeps coming to "Everyone wants them seperate!"/"Not necessarily, we dont know what everyone wants!"

But if that's not really an option then yea, might as well just leave things alone

Edited by Tremmor19 on Aug 17th 2022 at 10:54:29 AM

No, but Ebenezer is, despite the source material being in the public domain by the time it was written. Fall of Efrafa is more of a Shout-Out, but is also listed on FanWorks.Literature. Similar to Holy Musical B@man!, which probably qualifies for the "parody" loophole in copyright protection, which is indexed on FanWorks.The DCU and FanWorks.Batman.

The point being that it doesn't really matter if an article is correctly or incorrectly indexed. Articles belong on multiple indexes. Examples belong under a single category and should not be duplicated on a page. These are not similar things.

We can have "these are all fan-made works" for articles and edge cases only have to affect those indexes, which people demonstrably use more to indicate "this work is a derivative" more than enforcement of a "fan vs professional" divide.

I wouldn't push to rename the media category "Fan Fic", but restricting it to that group is simply a much easier prospect than assuming the responsibility to handle the millions of edge cases that exist. I don't like the idea of an argument breaking out over if Holy Musical B@man! is properly using parody to mock the original work. The medium of the adaptation is theatre, so examples go in the theatre category of trope pages. The original work is copyright protected at the time that the adaptation was made, so the article gets indexed as a fan work.

Done. No arguments needed, except about length of copyright protection.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

I still wouldn't agree with that argument, but it is best for it to simply end here since nothing is being accomplished with this.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

To put it kindly, Ordeaux, you’re the one who seems most against changing anything. I don’t think we should kill a thread if it’s not yet ready for an action step.

Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 17th 2022 at 1:01:33 PM

I mean yeah I will admit I am the one most vocally opposed to it but I am not the only one that is, Fighteer also spoke out against it Libaray did in the past, bwburke also did.

The only reason I am saying this is I genuinely have no clue where things should go next since we are having a hard time agreeing on any solution.

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

Again, this is just a discussion. There's no need to stress about reaching a solution. If we do eventually, that's fine but still nothing to worry about.

Macron's notes

I honestly never really thought of it that way. I always viewed these kinds of threads as those supposed to reach a solution.

Edited by Ordeaux26 on Aug 17th 2022 at 11:17:22 AM

CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes

So, mild necro, but I was wondering whether to put the examples for a fan-made webcomic in "Fan Works" or "Webcomics" and found this discussion.

I was under the impression that they should go under Fan Works, but a look in the wicks for some Fan Webcomics appear divided on which of the two folders they should go in.

In reference to the summary of arguments so far (I think this is regarding which folder to put what in on trope pages but correct me if I'm wrong), the option I'm most inclined to agree with is C; keeping fanworks in their respective media folders save for the large section of fanfiction.

The next option I'm inclined to is D - while I prefer Fan material separated from official, I can see the arguments for otherwise and wouldn't mind just noting in the example itself that it's fan-made. Perhaps make a subheading in the folder for them, if there are more than two, just a suggestion.

Then I prefer option B and, lastly, A. I'd avoid either though due to the larger potential of edge cases.

However, there's another issue. I have plans of crosswicking for works in FanWorks.Just Shapes And Beats in the future and some works have similar occurrences of a trope, but are not all of the same medium ^note (One page in the works is a fan-made Web Animation, the rest present so far are Fan Webcomics).

For example, the game lacks names for the characters so there's lots of Named by the Adaptation in the fan works. My idea was to make an Asscaps header for JSAB in NamedByTheAdaptation.Fan Works to add all the fan works' executions of such. So that would seem in line with Option B...

Edited by BlackFaithStar on Sep 5th 2022 at 6:41:04 PM

Creepypasta cleanup got two major pages for JTK and Slender