To-do list:
- Move any wicks and on-page examples that fit Continuity Cameo, Crossover Cameo, or Celebrity Cameo accordingly, and leave any wicks that only fit the supertrope at The Cameo. If The Cameo does not have enough on-page examples for the newly created trope pages (Crossover Cameo and Celebrity Cameo), crosswicking may be necessary.
However, the description also, very vaguely, mentions that fictional animated characters making brief appearances may also count for the trope. Unfortunately, the vague description and broad connotations of the word "cameo" have led to a lot of mixed usage. This wick check of 117 entries displays that the main "correct" usage only accounts for about 20% of the usage. Here's how specific usage is laid out:
- A celebrity briefly appearing in another work : 24 / 117 (20.5%)
- Celebrity appears in the work, just not played by themselves: 3 / 117 (2.6%)
- Cameo from a staff member: 1 / 117 (0.9%)
- A character from the same franchise makes a brief appearance in the work: 41 / 117 (35.0%)
- A different fictional character makes a brief appearance in the work: 19 / 117 (16.2%)
- Appearance from a character by the same author/company as the work: 10 / 117 (8.5%)
- Miscellaneous misuse: 3 / 117 (2.6%)
- Not enough context to tell / murky: 16 / 117 (13.7%)
Or more generally:
- Appearances of real people (whether played by them or not): 28
- Appearances of characters: 70
- Other / unclear: 19
So basically, despite being written about celebrity appearances, most usage is for character appearances.
The Cameo is clearly in need of a split. Here are the various uses that can be spun off into specific tropes:
- The main one, a celebrity making a short appearance in a work (this should probably also be Trivia as it refers to production information)
- Characters from earlier in the series/franchise appearing briefly in a later installment (may overlap with Continuity Cameo but I'm unclear exactly what's going on with that trope)
- Characters from other franchises making brief appearances in a work (Crossover Cameo? May overlap with Lawyer-Friendly Cameo)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 31st 2022 at 6:18:30 AM
the Retromancer
To further clarify, despite the name, Continuity Cameo's description talks about character appearances "from another continuity" (typical for mainstream franchises), so either it should be revamped to explicitly allow characters from the same work/timeline or be split, (maybe renamed as well, but we haven't discussed that enough) thus the current crowner.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Yeah, I think I have a better grasp of what we're doing crowner-wise than I did earlier.
We'd need to decide names for crossover cameos and celebrity cameos (though I don't see either crowner having too many options, especially because I could see simply calling them Crossover Cameo and Celebrity Cameo being popular options), and if expanding Continuity Cameo to include non-crossover cameos for fictional characters is downvoted in favor of splitting those off as well (which hasn't been the case so far), we'd need to decide a name for that as well.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
It's either real or it's a dream
Having Continuity Cameo separated by continuity makes it too similar to Mythology Gag, so I'm all for the change.
Edited by harryhenry on May 6th 2022 at 8:47:18 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of expanding Continuity Cameo to cover characters from one part of a franchise having a cameo in another.
In addition to needing to update Continuity Cameo's description, we need names for the other two types of cameos we're dealing with (crossovers and celebrities), even if Crossover Cameo and Celebrity Cameo are good names as-is (but that's just my opinion and not a Word of Mod statement, since it's generally preferable to have more than one option for alt titles crowners).
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Angry babby
Celebrity Cameo already being a redirect makes it the easiest. I'm not sure about any alts for Crossover Cameo.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I hooked a crowner to decide on what to call crossover cameos. I'd imagine Crossover Cameo will win regardless (the fact that it has an Alliterative Name without sounding forced probably helps); I improvised with more names as more of a formality because it felt wrong to have an alt titles crowner with only one name.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
What should be done with the two subpages for this now-supertrope? I think TheCameo.M Night Shyamalan can easily just be moved to the main Creator Cameo page in the live-action films folder, as it's pretty short anyways. Now for TheCameo.Stan Lee, I would say the page could be moved to a sub-page as Creator Cameo, but not every Stan Lee cameo is in stuff he had a part in creating. Would a Sir Cameos-a-Lot subpage make sense? It is necessarily a bad thing if it stays catagorized as a sub-page on The Cameo?
Edited by prettycoolguy on May 10th 2022 at 8:15:36 AM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If there are any examples that fit Creator Cameo instead, they can probably be moved independently of this thread. However, since we're probably going to end up moving most examples to subtropes once the wick cleanup phase of this thread starts, we can probably still tackle those examples when the time to clean up wicks comes.
the Retromancer
Today I've learned of Character Overlap (what a terrible name) and by the description and examples doesn't it feel like Crossover Cameo?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Angry babby
Not necessarily, since Character Overlap seems more like a way of establishing a Verse and is not specific to short irrelevant appearances. Crossover Cameo is more along the lines of a brief Shout-Out as it's usually not by works from a shared creator/verse.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of Crossover Cameo, which, unsurprisingly, ended up with the most votes (it's even unanimous).
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I hooked a crowner for celebrity cameos. Similarly to how Crossover Cameo predictably became the name of the crossover subtrope, I still feel that Celebrity Cameo will end up being the final name; the other names were just a result of putting synonyms of "celebrity" for the sake of giving the crowner more than one option, and Celebrity Cameo is my personal favorite.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Name Cameo would work as a nice redirect.
Jawbreakers on sale for 99ยข
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
As a side note/tangent, in case anyone's wondering what the removed option was, it was Real-Person Cameo, which I removed because I forgot we already had a completely separate trope with that name, meaning we couldn't use it for the trope this crowner is for.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling in favor of Celebrity Cameo (as if anyone didn't see this one coming).
If I'm not mistaken, we'd need four sandboxes:
- One for turning The Cameo into a supertrope after the other definitions are split off
- One for the decision to expand Continuity Cameo's definition (unless the changes needed are so minimal that they could be done right away)
- One for Crossover Cameo
- One for Celebrity Cameo
I can update the opening post with a to-do list later, but I need a break right now.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Angry babby
Sandbox.Celebrity Cameo will probably be the easiest to make, as The Cameo is already celebrity-focused in its description.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Celeb cameo
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I added a to-do list to the opening post and pinned it. The original contents have been moved to a folder.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I modified the description and the laconic for Continuity Cameo for the new definition. Sandbox.Celebrity Cameo has been created, but I'm not sure what else to add to the description. I'm not gonna touch The Cameo's description until Celebrity Cameo and Crossover Cameo exist, but I modified the laconic already.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Bump ~
So, I keep coming across wicks to The Cameo during Absentee Actor, and I might want to kill two birds with one stone, but first I need to know. Are examples like "Chloe & her parents, Frank & Esther Exposition, Beatrice and Rosetta all made cameo appearances" considered low context?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
Sounds like "Trope: X is an example of Trope". I suggest rephrasing to "major characters in Y work make only a brief appearance in this work in Episode N" or something like that. It would depend on the case.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't know the works, so I guess I'd just delete them?
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
the Retromancer
Don't we comment ZCE out if it sounds like they do happen?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Not in TRS cleanups.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
OK, so the revised crowner has been hooked. I'll set the previous ATT bulletin to private and post a new one.
Just to clear things up for future crowners, are we splitting The Cameo into three tropes (or two plus expanding Continuity Cameo, depending on how the current crowner goes) by separating crossover cameos from cameos within franchises (in addition to moving celebrity cameos to another trope)? Because it looks like that would be worth doing based on how many examples showed up in the wick check.
Edit: I guess the end of the opening post does say the three main types of usage will be covered by three tropes, so that clears things up. (My sleep schedule's been screwed up lately and that probably caused me to not think things through.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 6th 2022 at 10:13:50 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.