Unclear Description: Filk Song

That proposal didn't have consensus on the crowner, so it's staying in Main/.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 26th 2022 at 1:34:49 PM

So, what are we gonna do about that issue? It can't just stay in the state of being unaddressed.

...Definition only genre page, perhaps?

Hi. I contributed to the ATT query about "What is the Filk Song page about?" I had given what I thought was a clear summary of the history of filking, only to have someone reply that it is definitely a confused term, and only older fans who remember print fanzines and Usenet boards use the term "filk." Upon recognizing myself partly in that description, I went away.

My feeling is that a Filk Song is a specific genre. (It must be, if it has a entire subculture of fans who specialize in it, yes?)

If we can, we should keep the material about the history of filking and the filk subculture as an Useful Note or an Analysis page.

I support going "definition only genre" if others prefer that.

"Fan Music" could become a generalized genre (supertrope?), include modern examples of filks and related types like Bardcore.

Thank you for your time.

Edited to correct typos caused by autocorrections.

Edited by PCD on Apr 27th 2022 at 12:26:58 PM

Making it a Useful Notes or Analysis page was already downvoted. Making it a Definition-Only Page wasn't brought up until now, so we're seeing if it works out better than Useful Notes/Analysis.

^ I see. Thank you.

If Filk Song becomes definition only, would we be moving examples of existing filks to the Fan Music proposal?

Presumably, unless we decide that the page for Filk Song should at least feature influential people from the genre. I'm not the one to make that decision, though.

Yeah, moving examples to Fan Music makes sense.

I've moved all the songs that are fan works of specific pieces of media to Fan Music. I didn't move songs that were about general sci-fi or nerdy concepts. (I also didn't move ones that just had a Shout-Out to a work in the song rather than the whole song being a fan work.)

Edited by Orbiting on Apr 30th 2022 at 7:14:57 AM

I noticed that there are examples (both in and out of the page) which reference creators who consistently make fan music as a part of their identity, such as Miracle of Sound, Area 11, WoodenToaster, Random Encounters, and many others, majority of which don't seem to fit into a single fandom/category. I think it might be a good idea to have a seperate folder for them, but I want to hear your thoughts first.

How would that work for example sorting? If you wanted to list a paticular fan song by one of those artists, would it be listed in their section in the general folder, the section for the parent work, or both?

Edited by Orbiting on Apr 30th 2022 at 8:51:11 AM

Good question. Though, it should be noted that the wiki has sub-pages for certain fanfic creators, and the page for Nerdcore has a seperate folder (or section divider, or whatever you prefer to call it), at the very beginning dedicated to fandom-centered rappers and hip hop groups, like JT Music, Starbomb, and the like.

Edited by AoeAbility on Apr 30th 2022 at 6:07:46 AM

I was checking Heavy Mithril since a lot of LOTR examples fit better there, and it seems its suffering from Missing Supertrope Syndrome and the same sort of issues that Filk did.

The entire description is about metal music and its connections to the fantasy fandom, but the example section lists a lot of rock music and classical music examples, metal examples that are Fan Songs of anime or video games, and a general issue with ZCE (typically in the form of "X band, period." type examples) and bad indentation and lack of organization.

ZCEs are certainly a pretty big issue, most certainly with the newer examples in the old version. The new version made this issue much more visible, from what I can see.

Going off the above revelation, I have to say, that from the state of the page, Filk Song always had a ZCE problem, and splitting it only made the issue more visible. The wick check didn't cover everything, but ZCEs are about 15% of the found links, many of them arent't wicked back, and the main page had (and still has) the same issue. Well, that and general lack of focus on what the term actually meant.

So what exactly is going on with the Fan Music thing looking at the sandbox page it looks finished but it was never published.

I'll move Sandbox.Fan Music to Main.Fan Music in three days if nobody objects.

It has been three days so it should be moved now then.

Done. I actually forgot about that, so thanks for the reminder.

The page still feels *kinda* incomplete. Also we need to make sure the wicks are checked from Filk Song, wherever they don't fit the designated definition, and do some cleanup.

Since Filk Song is a Definition-Only Page, examples of it can't be listed, though references to the term are fine in wicks.