Needs Help: Mailer Daemon

Would Cursed Catfisher work as a title?

I don't think that we should choose a name until after the new definition is decided. The crowner said "expand the definition". I had argued that we should expand to any long-distance (or "long-distance") communication with a romance, not limited to the supernatural. Several of the names being proposed presuppose that the supernatural creature is attempting to harm the human.

I was thinking about that, I was going off the interpretation of the defenition plus the expansion, but maybe we need to settle of the coverage first.

The "expand the definition" options said to expand to all forms of communication so I thought that was what we were going to do. I'll close and unhook the crowner though.

Edit: fixed grammar

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 7th 2022 at 6:13:37 AM

Expanding the definition was mainly supposed to involve taking the current definition and tweaking it to allow non-computerized forms of communication, like letters or phone calls, as opposed to how the current definition is restricted to online communication. I can't think of any other way to expand it.

I think expanding it to remove the supernatural aspect would be turning it into a different trope, which would probably work better as a supertrope and could probably be sent to TLP.

I'll copy the description to Sandbox.Mailer Daemon Expansion and we can work on the revised description from there.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 7th 2022 at 5:00:31 AM

Double posting because I tweaked Sandbox.Mailer Daemon Expansion to account for the expanded definition. Does it look OK? Note that the replacements of "Mailer Daemon" with "this character" and "the Daemon" with "the stalker" are placeholders; we can replace those with the new trope name once we've decided on it.

Edit: Macron suggested making the wording gender-neutral, so I did that as well.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 7th 2022 at 5:30:14 AM

Oh, another thing; I am not sure if the trope is a character trope or an event trope. The current description describes the trope like its a character archetype but I think its more like a plot event. But I could be wrong.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 7th 2022 at 6:42:55 AM

Go ahead and change it if you can think of any new changes.

Despite the name, I do think this is a plotty trope (the POV character developing a friendship with the entity they're writing to, with some sort of Reveal near the end), but it works as a character trope, too. There's the "Literal Maneater: Sisterites, a particularly unpleasant breed of digital-age succubi who seduce their prey over the internet, lure them to their lairs, and then devour them" wick, which lines up with the meat of the description.

Communication is the key to any relationship, so it is no surprise that a romance can begin when your only contact is by communicating. This trope describes a relationship built upon characters sharing their secrets and flaws by some sort of long-distance communication; letters, emails, linked journals, etc. While one character may assume that their new love interest is in some far-away place, they might be as close as next-door. Rather than meeting in-person, however, their relationship begins like Pen Pals. The reasons why they don't meet in person can vary wildly.

One possible reason is that they haven't noticed or already don't like each other in-person. The identity that they've formed through the letters/online is completely different, or at least began with different assumptions about their behaviour. Talking to each other creates conflict, but sitting down to write in your magical diary allows for the feelings to flow smoothly.

Another reason for the relationship may be that one of the characters is trapped somehow, and cannot leave the place they're in. While the "trapped" character might just be a shut-in, more fantastical ideas (such as an AI in a box, Time Travel, Another Dimension, etc) are all possible starting situations. When the lovers are in this situation, the "trapped" character needs the other one for their freedom. The more supernatural the "trapped" character is, the more likely the romance was faked in order to manipulate the other character.

A popular reason for the characters to meet via long-distance communication is that one of them is visibly "other". The monstrous character knows that they can never be accepted by society, but by reaching out through letters or chat rooms, they can adopt a mundane persona. This online presence (or magical equivalent) allows them to find love with a "normal" person, who would otherwise find their appearance too horrifying to see past.

Actual examples of this trope tend to mix-and-match possible reasons, although a common element that they share is the surprise and feeling of betrayal during The Reveal, when the characters meet in person. The character who feels betrayed will be angry at what they might at first assume was a deliberate deception. A story might have a one-sided reveal occur early on in order to allow both characters that moment of betrayal, feeding the guilt at the character who did intentionally deceive the other one. Resolving that betrayal depends on what direction the work leans; comedic works will have the misunderstanding resolved and the characters continue the relationship, while tragic works will have one character intentionally tricking the other for some personal gain (possibly including killing/eating the other character).

Subtrope of Pen Pals.

I just went ahead and replaced the sandbox's text with that.

Do we have any name suggestions for what to call the rewrite at Sandbox.Mailer Daemon Expansion? I agree with those who say it's more of a plot trope than a character trope.

Unseen Pen Pal and Unknown Pen Pal might work, even if they might be kind of bland.

Edit: Or maybe Covert Correspondence, or Covert Catfishing.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 7th 2022 at 9:46:57 AM

So if long distance communication in a relationship has flaws in it because of secrecy and deceit, it would fall under this trope and any long distance Pen Pals relationship that doesn't have those conflicts would go under Pen Pals right?

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 7th 2022 at 11:44:56 AM

Pen Pals is a supertrope to this, so that sounds right.

I think so, yes. Perhaps secrecy/deceit examples from Pen Pals can be transferred to new-name-Mailer Daemon.

I think the current image wouldn't be useful with the new defenition.

I turned Covert Correspondence into a redirect since it was the only other option that had at least ten votes while also being within consensus range.

Edit: I added it to the relevant Renamed Tropes page and posted a notice on the old discussion page.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 10th 2022 at 10:24:23 AM

How to rework this line in G.I.R.L.?

What about this?

Edit: Went ahead and made the change.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 10th 2022 at 10:55:23 AM

Fantastic.

Since the examples are (predictably) mostly negative monster-luring-hapless-protagonist sorts, I've dropped this on TLP for more examples.

I took care of the rest of the wicks. The rest of the work can take place on TLP without this thread staying open.