NaNo 4328 / 50,000
I would definitely agree that the Dungeons & Dragons article (and sub-articles) needs reorganization, but I'm afraid that I'm too busy to dedicate much assistance. I can give some opinions and use mod tools to make things easier, but I have too many other commitments to finish a project of this scale within a month or two.
I agree that by edition (instead of by race/class/setting) should be the first division, and I think the next major division should be by setting. "Official Editions and Derivative Works" is a good starting point here. The following suggestions could be made in the Sandbox/ namespace while trying to find the correct tropes/wicks.
- TabletopGame.Original Dungeons And Dragons or TabletopGame.Chainmail
- TabletopGame.Basic Dungeons And Dragons
- TabletopGame.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons1st Edition
- TabletopGame.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons2nd Edition
- TabletopGame.Dungeons And Dragons3rd Edition with TabletopGame.Dungeons And Dragons 35 as a redirect
- TabletopGame.Dungeons And Dragons4th Edition
- TabletopGame.Dungeons And Dragons5th Edition (maybe with TabletopGame.Dungeons And Dragons Next as a redirect)
Many of the "Derivative Works" actually belong on the FanWorks/ namespace, since they are not part of the D&D IP, such as Pathfinder and 13th Age. Both are legally distinct from D&D and for that reason cannot be said to be part of the work itself (although there is nothing wrong with stating the relationship on their pages). Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Pls stop calling everything Harsher in Hindsight
(working on figuring out how to do all this, thank you for the tip)
I've started work on Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons5th Edition, Dungeons And Dragons4th Edition, and Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons3rd Edition- I've copied over all the relevant tropes from all the sections except the Classes and Creatures (excluding most zero-context examples), but I haven't done any work yet on the descriptions.
There is some stuff I'm not sure where to put, as its things like various fantasy races and locations that appear in multiple editions.
Additionally, I've found several duplicate entries in Mechanics and Settings, so merging all the trope examples into one list has my support.
Edited by Orbiting on Jul 17th 2021 at 7:18:43 AM
I've added descriptions, mostly taking them from the info on the main page (and removed some complaining about 5th edition not releasing books fast enough in the process). I've put images of the original Player's Handbook for each edition as the page images, but I'm open to other suggestions.
Made Sandbox.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons2nd Edition, but I freely admit I don't know much about the earlier editions.
Sandboxes made so far:
The main page:
All individual editions:
- Sandbox.Original Dungeons And Dragons
- Sandbox.Basic Dungeons And Dragons
- Sandbox.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons1st Edition
- Sandbox.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons2nd Edition
- Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons3rd Edition
- Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons4th Edition
- Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons5th Edition
The movie:
The TV series:
- Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons Animated (not sure if there's a better way to title this)
- Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons 1983 (alternative title)
The pinball game:
YMMV pages:
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons (what will be left for the general page after the stuff for specific editions are moved)
- Sandbox.YMMV Advanced Dungeons And Dragons2nd Edition
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons3rd Edition
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons4th Edition
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons5th Edition (we might end up needing to make separate pages for Complacent Gaming Syndrome, Tier Induced Scrappy, and Author's Saving Throw examples)
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons 2000
- Sandbox.YMMV Dungeons And Dragons 1983
Nightmare Fuel:
Trivia:
- Sandbox.Trivia Dungeons And Dragons 1983
- Sandbox.Trivia Dungeons And Dragons 1987
- Sandbox.Trivia Dungeons And Dragons 2000
Heartwarming:
Awesome:
Tear Jerker:
Funny:
Fridge:
Headscratchers:
WMG:
Recap:
Edited by Orbiting on Aug 3rd 2021 at 7:23:42 AM
Professor Gigachad
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sounds good.
After looking at the remaining subpages (classes and creatures), I think we can keep the separate Classes character pages for each edition, though the Characters.Dungeons And Dragons Classes Other Pre Third Edition Classes page is so short that it can easily be merged with Sandbox.Advanced Dungeons And Dragons1st Edition and cut. The others all have a decent amount of content and as far as I can tell its the norm for tabletop games pages to have character pages to trope player character options.
The Creatures pages I'm not as sure about, especially for the ones about creatures who've appeared in multiple editions.
Amateur Veteran
Splitting the creature pages between editions is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it. None of the pages for games that went through multiple editions do this, to begin with (see the pages for Warhammer, Warhammer 40,000, and Pathfinder; expand this to video games, and you can see that Pokémon and Digimon also do no such thing), and for good reason. With rare exceptions, each species, character and faction is, in fact, the same one each time and all changes outside of minor tweaks are due to in-universe developments. All incarnations share the majority of their tropes as a result, and making distinct pages for each edition would just result in needless repetition, redundancy and bloat.
There are some creatures that changed drastically over time, but they're a small enough minority that it's far more economical to just note that in their folders.
There's no real reason to split those pages and plenty not to, is what I'm getting at.
Edited by Theriocephalus on Jul 26th 2021 at 1:38:42 PM
I don't think there's a reason to merge the Class pages for each edition. Take 4 core classes as examples: Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, and Barbarian.
Comparing them from 1st-3rd, 4th, and 5th edition, the only trope common across all three character pages for Sorcerers is Glass Cannon.
Clerics: Combat Medic and Turn Undead
Bards: The Bard, Magic Music, Music for Courage
Barbarian: The Berserker and Nature Hero
The number goes up when you exclude 4th edition, but even so I don't think its worth it because cramming them all together brings up the question of what to do with things like Assassins, Paladins, Rangers, etc. which are distinct classes in some editions but are just sub-classes in others. Should all subclasses get their own folders? There's dozens of them, it would be completely unmanagable. Should Rangers, Fighters, and Paladins all be lumped together in a folder, because in some editions Rangers and Paladins were Fighter subclasses and shared most of Fighter's tropes, even though in other editions they're completely separate and share very few tropes? That would make things even more confusing IMO. It'd be much easier to keep them separated by edition.
Edited by Orbiting on Jul 26th 2021 at 6:15:09 AM
Alright, I've made Sandbox pages for the subpages that will need to be made once we split the animated series and film off, so I think the work is pretty much done. Any objections to making the new pages for the different editions + film/pinball/animated series pages and swapping the text on the main page with what's in Sandbox.Dungeons And Dragons?
Professor Gigachad
I don't have any objections If you want I could split the animated series.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Professor Gigachad
Alright I moved the Animated Series stuff now the wicks need to be corrected I will handle them eventually.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Alright, the pages have been moved. I've migrated the wicks for the movie, and am working through the ones for the animated series.
Finished moving the wicks for Dungeons & Dragons (1983)!
(she/her)
Locking as requested
Macron's notes
The formatting of stuff is so weird. Everything is in folders and I legitimately think the editions, movie, and animated show should get split up because the pages are a mess.
Also the YMMV section has folders for "first edition classes" and "second edition classes" "Gaming" "items" "meta" and the like. I think doing away with that and just having one YMMV page per edition would be a lot less confusing.