Misused (alt names crowner 28 Feb 2021): Deader Than Disco

True, works and creators tend to bounce back- especially YouTube creators, many of whom retain loyal audiences through their worst. We need a longer wait period.

I only said that a year should be the minimum waiting period, not that I think we should decide that exact timeframe. Five years is actually what I think is the most appropriate waiting period.

Edit: Never mind this post. I'm sick and need to look at this thread more closely.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 14th 2021 at 7:15:52 AM

I'd say:

1. Get rid of "man on the street" rule. It's too restrictive.

2. Make the work, series, or creator be popular within a certain audience, with a clear change in opinion towards dislike that happened.

3. The previously popular work must become disliked. The work doesn't qualify if the original content holds up but new content is bad (that's Seasonal Rot). However, I'd say bad enough Ending Aversion could qualify something for this trope if it made everything that came before it become hated.

4. A year should be the minimum waiting period in case the work, series, or creator in question manages to bounce back (if it bounces back, that's Popularity Polynomial). Ongoing works should not qualify for Deader Than Disco.

5. Make another trope about disco being mocked, since that seems popular enough to be a trope of its own.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 14th 2021 at 12:53:56 PM

That sounds good.

This is great, I agree with all of this.

Here's something I think we should also take into consideration, when it comes to creators, what separates Deader Than Disco from Fallen Creator? I feel like there's some overlap between the two tropes.

I do not wish for this trope to be cut, and so I'll tip my hat for a broadening of the trope.

BTW, a separate trope about disco specifically being a punchline would be good.

Adding an assent for broadening and a "disco bad" trope. (Don't have anything to add but consensus I suppose.)

I agree with making a trope about mocking disco since that's actually a trope. Are Disco Sucks and Nobody Likes Disco good names for that?

Yeah, something like a Disco Sucks trope would be great.

Wholeheartedly agree—I can name specific examples that would fit too (e.g. the scene in Airplane! where the plane destroys the disco radio station antenna, the page quote from Rugrats, etc.)

Should we do a crowner now that there is some consensus?

If we want to rename Deader Than Disco, would something "Condemned by History" or "Incriminated by History" be a good replacement? I think this trope works as the reverse of Vindicated by History, and a similar name might help get the point across better.

Condemned by History sounds perfect.

I like that name too, though I think it might be a bit too generic. I'm still open to it however.

I like Condemned by History better than Hype Reversion. It strikes me as a case of a snowclone (of Vindicated by History) that works.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 15th 2021 at 6:51:09 AM

Regarding the idea of documenting a Disco Sucks trope, most (but not all) of the examples in the "In-Universe Examples" section on Deader Than Disco are about mocking disco, so if you want to TLP it, you can mine examples from there.

Yeah. Remove the "man on the street" rule because:

1. It's too restrictive and dismisses the ever-changing trends of the Internet;
2. People at this time are mostly at home chatting on the Internet discussing trends that were hot and not, then and now. And there are sparse people walking on the street with their face masks on.

Yeah, I agree with removing the "man on the street" test because it's probably the main reason the definition is so restrictive (from what I recall seeing from lurking in the cleanup thread). I recall a buttload of examples being rejected because they failed that specific test.

Edit: Also, I think a Disco Sucks trope for characters hating disco in-universe would work.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:02:38 AM

We used to have a draft named "Condemned by History", but that draft has been lost to the trash heaps of the Discard list.

I agree with all the suggestions in post #29. Would "Ongoing works should not qualify" include bands that are still releasing music? I remember Nickelback was once approved, but then someone pointed out they're still releasing music and thus shouldn't count. What about once-popular works that experienced backlash and then came back from a long hiatus?

Worth noting that three of the four bands listed in the "rock" section of the music page are still active. Personally, I think active bands shouldn't be considered ongoing works because bands are creators, not works. The works would be their albums and/or songs.

Agreed.

Yeah, I think bands and artists should be considered creators and their albums/songs are their works.

Also, I think Fallen Creator is closer to Seasonal Rot than Deader Than Disco. People tend not to hate the works of a Fallen Creator that they previously thought was good. For example, people still say The Sixth Sense is good even if they don't like M Night Shyamalan's subsequent works. Deader Than Disco would apply if people suddenly decided The Sixth Sense was never good in the first place and they were wrong to have liked it, it's just as bad as Shyalaman's other works, etc.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 17th 2021 at 12:28:41 PM

I agree but I think DTD would still apply if people try to downplay the creator's involvement in the stuff that's still well-liked, for example people saying John Kricfalusi wasn't really the genius behind Rem & Stimpy and it was Bob Camp and other people involved in production that made it good, etc. (I don't feel that specific example is actually true but that seems to be the new popular narrative).

Edited by Glowsquid on Feb 17th 2021 at 3:00:45 PM