I was inspired by the TRS post I made
because there's still a mess of gushing and preemptive troping in the examples despite the definition of the trope being expanded. Like this for example:
- Author's Saving Throw:
- In the Shoshinkai demo, taking care of Bowser was too easy: all you had to do was swing him by the tail and throw him at one of the bombs. In the final product, this was only the first of three Bowser fights, with the next two becoming progressively more difficult.
- Once you make it to the top of Peach's castle, the back of it looks entirely unfinished. This was fixed in the DS remake where they covered it with a green hill.
I don't think the first example counts because that was prerelease. It's not like anyone other than the press had access to that version of the game. The second might count though.
Update: As of September 2022, per this TRS thread, examples should be moved from YMMV subpages to Trivia, and they require confirmation from Word of God and/or Word of Saint Paul regarding why the work was changed, so any on-page examples and wicks that don't fit the new restrictions must be removed. In-universe examples do not have this restriction. If the removal of examples on subpages renders the subpage too small, or if there are no valid examples left, Cut List the subpage, and, if there are any valid examples left, move them to the parent page (either the main page for Author's Saving Throw or a work's Trivia subpage).
If removing examples, consider whether they may fit Salvaged Story instead. For removals lacking creator conformation, there is an AST salvaging archive for sorting examples. Please put them there.
Edited by Tabs on Nov 19th 2022 at 11:31:32 AM
I mainly fix indentation issues
Could you give us a brief summary of the trope? How you can use?
Edited by SoyValdo7 on Nov 19th 2022 at 7:02:45 AM
Valdo
It's pretty flexible and meant for "improved take on such-and-such idea that fans disliked in a past entry, but loved the second time around". That applies both to direct sequels/spinoffs and to cross-medium adaptations. Basically, if a former AST entry is "this does an old thing but better" it should be valid.
The Man Outside Reality
Improved Second Attempt works for comic-to-movie adaptations and video game remakes, right? When I was doing the old AST to Salvaged Story moves, a lot of entries were deleted for being about the movie doing the comic better.
Trust no one.
Yes it does. It's flexible, as long as the audience had a higher opinion of the second time around it's good.
Uzume's back baby!
Quick question Alley Oop, does Fix Fic overlap with Improved Second Attempt?
"The name's Uzume Tennouboshi! Yeah, it's pretty badass, I know." - Uzume, Megadimension Neptunia VII
If it's an actual fanfiction, then that would fall under Better Than Canon, if it's widely regarded as superior to the canon. Though some attempts at Improved Second Attempt can feel like a kind of Fix Fic in principle.
Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 20th 2022 at 1:36:24 PM
Musician/Composer
This is from Trivia.Sakura Wars 2019:
- Author's Saving Throw:
- Unlike the previous games where the protagonist has limited dialogue, Seijuro Kamiyama is the first fully-voiced protagonist in the series. In addition, if anyone prefers the old style of having the protagonist silent, the option to mute Seijuro is available.
- When the announcement trailer was released, fans were shocked that the previous combat revues vanished during the Great Demon War. Fortunately, Sega planned Sumire Kanzaki's return in advance, to the delight of the fans.
- Thanks to the efforts of fans, Sega announced plans to release the game worldwide, to the point where they planned a marketing blitz starting in February 2020.
- When the game was first released, it received some criticism for its action based combat. In the January 2020 livestream, producer Tetsu Katano revealed that Sega had made some updates for the game's worldwide release. The update, which was released on March 19, 2020, included the addition of a lock-on feature, in-game control scheme changes and so on.
Thoughts?
He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
I mainly fix indentation issues
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
The first three bullets don't cite sources. The fourth seems to be okay, but does not mention whether Tetsu Katano admitted to doing the update due to the criticism of the combat style.
low-poly Shinri
Found this on The Legend of Heroes: Trails into Reverie
- Author's Saving Throw:
- The concept for this game was, in part, thought up due to the developers previously not getting the chance to show off Crossbell's liberation, an event first mentioned at the end of Azure. For players disappointed about the liberation being an Offscreen Moment of Awesome up to this point, this was good news indeed.
- The confirmed lack of Bonding Points was also welcomed by many people who thought that Azure and the Cold Steel games had too many important character moments locked behind optional scenes that can't be seen in a single playthrough.
- The True Reverie Corridor provides Post Endgame Content, allowing replayablilty with all playable characters even after achieving 100% Completion. This is a feature that was previously only implemented in the Crossbell games and those were locked behind a New Game Plus.
Since AST needs a citation that confirms that the change was intentional, is there source for any of these being intentional, because I want to go into Reverie (mostly) blind.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
The Destroyer of Food
If none of the examples have any citation from the creators or their collaborators then they are invalid and should be deleted.
Beware, I live!
low-poly Shinri
Removed and cited this thread.
Uzume's back baby!
Should we consider dewicking any AST potholes, since its now a Trivia trope that needs Word of God or Word of Saint Paul to confirm the feedback and most of these examples stick to the original rule.
"The name's Uzume Tennouboshi! Yeah, it's pretty badass, I know." - Uzume, Megadimension Neptunia VII
She / Her
I'd cut the potholes, assuming there isn't Word of Saint Paul or Word of God to back up the example in question.
I was thinking of adding an example of Salvaged Story to the Glee page, but I'm not sure if it's legitimate. At the beginning of season four, the show introduced some new characters to join the glee club. They were criticized for being rehashes of the original cast. In season six, another batch of newbies were introduced. These newbies were given unique personalities and weren't just rehashes of the original cast. I remember the show being praised for this. However, I checked the YMMV page for the show and found this under Base-Breaking Character:
- The new newbies in season six. Some are mad that they essentially replaced Marley, Jake, Ryder, Kitty, and Unique, especially in a shortened final season that wouldn't be able to offer them much in the form of character development. Others are glad that they appear to be more fully formed characters as opposed to the previous group, which was mostly made of several expies, as well as the fact that they wouldn't have been around long enough to be ruined like the writers.
This suggests that the season six newbies weren't universally liked and the season four newbies had some fans.
Uh, was there a group of writers in-universe or is that last bit a typo for "ruined by the writers?" Because if it's the latter - my personal first assumption - then that whole entry reads like the sort of Broken-Base-as-stealth-complaining misuse that's very pervasive, and raises the prospect that this is an individual troper with an axe to grind rather than a common opinion in the first place.
Yeah, I think that's a typo.
Here's a write up of what I was thinking of adding:
Salvaged Story: The new additions to the cast from season four were criticized for being rehashes of the original cast with less depth. With the exception of one, they were written off the show and replaced by a new slate of characters in season six. These characters received some praise from the fanbase for being original and not being based off of the previous cast.
That sounds more like Improved Second Attempt to me.
I fix my examples all the time
Found this in YMMV.Kamen Rider Revice.
- Author's Saving Throw:
- After being disappointed with the treatment of female Riders from the previous three series, many fans find Sakura a major improvement compared to Tsukuyomi (who had only a brief stint as a Rider towards the end of the show), Yua (who was demoted to Faux Action Girl relatively quickly), and Reika (who stayed a strong Action Girl throughout much of the show, but is seen by some fans as underdeveloped). Sakura is given lots of focus with a strong character arc and is established to be a strong Action Girl who can defend herself without the help of her brothers since the beginning of her series, even being Bash Brothers with Ikki & Vice more often than Daiji. Hanta Kinoshita, the head writer of the series, has stated that he intends to keep her character "strong" throughout the entire show. She then goes on to be the first female Rider in the franchise to get a Super Mode during her series run. And with Hana Natsuki becoming a Kamen Rider, Revice is now the first Kamen Rider series to have two female Kamen Riders with their own unique forms who are active at the same timenote . And to up the ante, we get a three-parter special focusing on several of the female leads and Riders from past seasons, all with their actresses reprising their roles.
- Gai Amatsu was negatively received for his poorly-written Freudian Excuse being disproportionate to his villainy and being a bland Hate Sink who failed to receive any true comeuppance and received a Heel–Face Turn. Olteca, who fills a similar role to Gai, seemed to address many of the issues fans had with the latter, as he's a vile villain who exudes creepy charm whilst taking delight in causing death and destruction, and has a somewhat sympathetic backstory that's more proportionate to the crimes he commits without making him redeemable in anyway. He also doesn't receive any redemption, instead receiving two humiliating defeats at the hands of Holy Live and Revice before being absorbed by Giff to become the final sacrifice, a well-deserved end after nonchalantly sacrificing many innocents to Giff. Even when it turns out he didn't truly die and was restored, the first thing the heroes did upon finding him was arrest him (with Tamaki almost about to clobber him), and the finale shows that George is the only one remotely willing to visit him in prison.
- Daiji's turn to Giff avoids quite a few of the issues had with Aruto becoming Ark-One in Kamen Rider Zero-One. For one thing, Daiji's fall is built up and happens over the course of several episodes, instead of it all being rushed and crammed into one episode. He's also given clear reasons for siding with Giff, rather than it being a simple case of Idiot Ball grasping, and his friends and family actively go out of their way to try and reason with him at first rather than simply writing him off as too far gone and immediately attacking him. Also, rather than have violence paradoxically be the solution to getting him to turn good again, Daiji only comes back from the brink because Ikki and Hiromi made efforts to get through to him by speaking to him.
- A lot of fans were refreshed to see that the final episode didn't have Revi getting an extra final form that looks identical to his base form. Instead, a similar effect is achieved by Giffard Rex's outer armour being shattered to reveal Revi and Vice's Rex Genome underneath.
How so? Are we treating seasons as sequels?
While it's within the same continuity, it's a rebooted attempt at a storyline that was perceived badly, rather than an effort to reorient the same characters/subplot onto a better trajectory.
I mainly fix indentation issues
From YMMV.Black Mesa Blue Shift:
- Author's Saving Throw: Several cases given that the original Half-Life: Blue Shift has some pretty glaring flaws.
- One of the biggest criticisms of the original Blue Shift was its short length, which the HECU Collective team are putting in the effort to extend the levels to make them feel like a more complete campaign. It's already seen with the "Duty Calls" level where many areas are vastly extended or revamped.
- The addition of a security guard Escort Mission in "Duty Calls" makes it quite clear that there's actually other fellow security guards to fight alongside with in this remake compared to how Calhoun didn't come across a single one in the original Blue Shift.note It's taken to the next degree when a pair of security guards helps out Calhoun during part of "Captive Freight", one of them being Otis, fulfilling the same role he did during his brief stint in "Opposing Force".
The first bullet needs a source. I have never played this game, so I can't confirm if what it say is true.
Edited by SoyValdo7 on Dec 18th 2022 at 9:47:48 AM
Valdo
She / Her
I don't know if the first is true either. As for the entry itself, I feel it's salvageable, though that's only assuming it's true and whoever wrote it just didn't leave a source. As for the second, I'd cut it because it doesn't suggest Word of Saint Paul and/or Word of God.
So this entry was deleted from Death Stranding as an invalid example on account of it not having a citation:
- Author's Saving Throw: After the "An Asexual World" journal entry received criticism for falling into common stereotypes and misconceptions of Asexuality (the entry is an in-universe scientific article theorizing that people have become disinterested in sex and emotional connections because of the current shape of the world), the Director's Cut added a footnote scrutinizing the article and noting that the theory it presents is controversial and discriminatory just like it was received in real life.
I'd argue that, given the way the revamped version includes an apology for potential offense caused within in the text, the updated entry itself is a citation in its own right.
Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 21st 2022 at 9:44:11 AM
Ah, had I known the archive would have such widespread usage I'd have given it a better name
Anyway, I changed the name to the less persona-sounding Authors Saving Throw Archive.
I also formally launched Improved Second Attempt, so if you find any AST examples that fit under that category, feel free to move them there.
Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 19th 2022 at 7:41:01 AM