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(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:55:20 AM
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Hey I just realized something, and this is a question for the mods.
Fighteer is usually the one who announces in EB that someone attempted ban evasion and got bounced. Will another mod step in and do that now that Fighteer is on hiatus?
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 22nd 2022 at 7:46:27 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Redmess
That could indeed be a problem once Fighteer's hatedom gets wind of this, but I'm sure the mods can handle it.
Let's all keep sharp and holler anything that crops up.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I assume they are or will be discussing that right now, and we will find out soon.
Edited by Redmess on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:47:58 PM
Optimism is a duty.
Discarded and Feeling Blue
If anything people might stay away; Fighteer certainly has a hatedom but there's no fun in coming back to troll if he's not around to get annoyed about it. 
We'll see what happens. For now, the mods are still figuring things out, and we just need to be patient.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The systems used to root out sock puppet accounts are still in place, we still have a competent team of moderators operating and capable of handling threads like edit banned with rationale and tact. I’m with Ravok in feeling uncomfortable having Fighteer coming back to a position of power after the years of abuse of it but there’s no evidence he and he alone kept out trolls and their ilk. As has been said before we aren’t other wikis, let’s stick to the site’s guidelines and assume some good faith here.
Hi
Any moderator can announce when people are bounced for ban evasion; I've done it several times and will continue to do it as the need arises.
Okay, with this issue simmering down I'd like to nudge—yet again, and hopefully for the final time—clarification on the rules considering PMs. The lack of an update to the issue is still an unanswered problem.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Ordeaux, please stop anxiety-posting. If and when this becomes a problem we will deal with it then; as is, it's dragging the issue.
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:15:40 AM
Professor Gigachad
I am not exactly talking about Fighteer's hatedom. It's more that we all know there are people that want to troll or ban evader for some reason. Fighteer has a reputation as the hardest mod so his being gone could make those trolls feel they can get away with more.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Moderators, thank you for your patience and your hard work on the site, both in general and with this thread.
Fighteer, you're not around, but I sincerely hope you get a chance to rest, relax, and if you want to, come back with a better attitude. Thank you for listening, and I wish it hadn't had to come to this, but it clearly did.
It's been fun.
Caesar
Yeah, I too would like to kind of shift directions a little bit to address what the official mod stance is on "what does and doesn't constitute moderation-worthy PM behavior" when it comes to talking about moderators and their decisions. Even though Lore came onto the thread and said he felt it was warranted, the community as a whole has no idea what was said that was worth suspension and what kind of protocols we need to follow to avoid similar. If I PM a buddy and say "I think that latest mod choice was really stupid", do I need to be afraid that buddy could contact a mod about my PM and, if the mod chooses to take personal offense, the mod suspend me from the wiki?
Edited by Ravok on Dec 22nd 2022 at 5:28:34 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yeah, this seems for the best and I hope Fighteer can take this opportunity to reevaluate himself and grow. Maybe we all can.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Hi
I'm working on something regarding that and will post it once I run it by the other mods for proofing.
I'm not worried about being up front about the incident. I P Med several people bad mouthing the mods im general regarding how the initial closure of the Magnificent Bastard and Complete Monster threads went down. The follow up thread had a very rocky start to say the least, considering words like cult and circlejerk were thrown around, and I got frustrated and misdirected anger towards the mods as a whole for how everything was quickly devolving. I can't blame Fighteer or anything of them for being upset at what amounted to school yard rumor mongering on my part.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Caesar
I, at least, can safely say that nothing you said to me in PMs during that time, on that topic, was remotely close to what I would consider moderation-worthy action. If you said something worse to other users, that's one thing, but if your overall demeanor with others in PMs was as well-spoken and reasonable as it was in the PMs we exchanged? Then there was absolutely no warrant for a wiki-wide suspension or mod intervention, IMO.
Edited by Ravok on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:08:11 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
drunk bunny
oh, wow, when i made my initial post this isn't the direction i expected this to go at all
that being said, it definitely seems like it's for the best
i hope Fighteer gets a much needed break and i wish him well
hopefully this all means that the forums continue to improve and become a better experience for everybody going forward 
If no one hasn't made that sandbox for the evidence, I can whip something up real quick.
Or we can wait until we're all back here again, that's fine, too.
Edited by badtothebaritone on Dec 22nd 2022 at 8:28:40 AM
...Do we need that at this point? Fighteer is taking a mandatory voluntarily break, so I don't feel it's neccessary. Right now I am just waiting patiently for an update on the PM situation.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:31:39 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
the Retromancer
I've only suggested the sandbox for future reference because it became apparent that people unfamiliar with his behavior in the rest of the forum could only guess what the situation was. Still feel free to make one. The intent wasn't to use it to influence mod team decision.
Edited by Amonimus on Dec 22nd 2022 at 5:31:07 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Figure of Hourai
Fighteer has announced voluntarily taking a break, but no decision by the rest of the moderation team has been announced. I don't know whether they feel they need it, or if 30+ pages of conversation is too much to go through. For them or anybody else.
It also occurred to me whilst going through more recent posts that Fighteer's behaviour in arguments was reminding me of Eddie's. Only it hadn't gotten to the purely retributive banning, and didn't seem likely to (I think I was first banned for arguing in the tsundere rename thread, but that was a long time ago and I can't remember).
Edited by RainehDaze on Dec 22nd 2022 at 2:31:34 PM
Avatar Source
Used the wrong word, but my point stands. I don't think it's needed right now. But you can make one if you so choose if you feel it will come up again.
Edited by jjjj2 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:32:44 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Hi
Regarding the PM question:
I'll double back to what Fighteer said earlier:
"Don't be a dick" covers what you send in your PMs just as much as it does anything you post in the forums, in edit reasons, or on wiki pages. So, to hopefully answer the question of "what does and doesn't constitute moderation-worthy PM behavior", ask yourself this question before you click Send—does this make me sound like a dick? Or, to frame it in a different way—if I posted this on the forum, would it get me thumped? If, on reflection, the answer is "yes", best to hit Backspace and rethink things.
Now, that being said, I want to reiterate that we do not actively police PMs for content unless we have a good reason to do so, such as reports of people receiving abusive PMs. We'd be fools to think that people don't grouse about some of our decisions behind the scenes, and we're not going to go digging for evidence of such just so we can smack knuckles. In the case of the example that Ravok posted, that's a bit harsh but would likely not merit more than some grumbling among us if it was reported. Now, if it had been "The mods are fuckwits for choosing that person", that would be moving into actionable territory as that would almost certainly get civil-thumped if it had been posted in the forums. There'd have to be consensus among the mods to take disciplinary action, and it would probably just merit a sternly-worded PM from us unless it had been sent to multiple people, which might lead to a PM suspension.
Hopefully this helps.
Edited by crazysamaritan on Dec 22nd 2022 at 2:40:10 PM
The Moron
Then how did this case lead to a wiki-suspension? That's my main concern. A PM suspension makes sense for behavior in PM, but the way Lore asked the question in the EB thread makes it seem like he was wiki-suspended, and based on what I'm hearing from someone who did get one of the PMs in question, I'm confused how it got to that point.
And again, I'm aware of the case from several years back that other people have referenced where it sounded like the person absolutely needed a full lock on privileges, but what I'm hearing from the people who received messages vs. the mod response isn't lining up. I don't need salacious details - Lore certainly deserves his privacy - but a PM suspension and a wiki suspension are far from the same punishment, and I think that's more the concern that people in this thread have.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:47:15 AM
Yeah, I don't think there is need for us to do much else. If we are still having problems with Fighteer's behavior when he gets back, we can reconvene. But I think we are done for now unless someone else has other concerns they would like to bring up.
Hi
Checking with the other mods (that are awake) on that, will post later unless another mod beats me to it.
The gist of it was that I was snarkily questioning the competency of the mods in regards to the situation. I can definitely understand why they would take offense in that situation.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I don't doubt it the mod's ability to handle the trolls. What I am more saying is that I have seen this kind of situation before on my wikis. Where a particularly hard admin ended up stepping down after burnout and another really toxic one was demoted it caused a massive surge of sockpuppet accounts who now felt that they could get away with more without them.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 4:54:47 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes