Making up for lost LGBTQ+ tropes

Tropes like Coming-Out Story, Armoured Closet Gay, and Forced Out of the Closet do seem to cover a lot of the closeted-related tropes. However, I did have an idea for a trope where a character being closeted provides conflict with their friends/lover wanting them to come out before their ready - not quite Forced Out of the Closet, but being pressured about coming out, especially when they're in a Secret Relationship and their partner wants to stop being secret.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Is Forced Out of the Closet strictly about when they do come out, or can it count any time a closeted gay is coerced to come out whether they actually do it or not?

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Forced Out of the Closet when they're outed or forced into outing themselves before they're ready, usually maliciously. This is distinct (not even covered by anything on its Playing With page), as it's not actually outing somebody and it's not with malicious intent. It's usually one character who's come out pressuring their partner in a Secret Relationship to come out because it's "not fair" or they think the closeted person is too paranoid or something, and it's usually not written as malicious, but it's definitely a Pet-Peeve Trope for a lot of LGBT people.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Are there stories where a closeted character remains closeted throughout? Those would be examples of Closet Gay that don't seem to be covered by any existing closet-related tropes. Also cases where a character discovers on their own that another character is closeted and keeps their secret.

That should fit Secret-Keeper.

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How do we, the audience, know that the character is gay? Is it explicit in the narrative that they are closeted or is it enough that we merely assume that they are gay without the narrative actually saying so? Because the latter is already a different trope, I think. If the narrative doesn't say but the author tells us later, that's Word of Gay.

How frequently do we encounter this in media, anyway? It might be Too Rare to Trope.

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 21st 2020 at 9:03:44 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Dumbing of Age contains a closeted trans woman who has remained closeted for several years since her debut. Though given the comic's pace, that might just mean she's not out yet.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:05:12 AM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

They could be a POV character.

Maybe, IDK, I'm just throwing out examples.

Scenarios can fit multiple tropes, and Secret-Keeper isn't inherently LGBT-related.

Edited by Twiddler on Sep 21st 2020 at 6:06:12 AM

Are we using "closeted" in this case to mean someone who is gay but hasn't admitted it to themselves, or someone who is gay, knows it, but hasn't admitted it to the world at large?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I think "Secret-Keeper but for closeted gay characters" is The Same, but More Specific.

I'm assuming the latter as it's more objective. The former usually fits Transparent Closet, since if it's not made somewhat obvious to the audience, it might veer into speculation.

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 21st 2020 at 9:10:29 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I was thinking of Ambiguously Gay for the character who isn't definitively gay but sends off all the signals.

Spitballing here... Staying In The Closet for someone who is known to be gay but won't make it public?

Edited by Fighteer on Sep 21st 2020 at 9:35:47 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

I think that's where a lot of the problems with the LGBT tropes came in, as they tended to incite audience speculation rather than be based on the direct content of the work. You're unlikely to see Alternative Character Interpretation that a character is straight.

So an actual "Closet Gay" trope would have to be either the drama of the story is someone trying to keep hidden or that they are discovered as such during the course of the story and not exposed in the process (otherwise it would be Forced Out of the Closet). It's the "no one knows" part that is tricky, because it should have some impact on the story and character and that's why the Coming-Out Story is more prevalent.

I was thinking of it as two separate tropes — Closet Gay + Secret-Keeper, not Secret Keeper For A Closet Gay. Consider for example how we have separate tropes for Secret Identity and Secret-Keeper, not Secret Keeper Of A Secret Identity.

Upon reflection, I don't think Closet Gay is actually redundant when paired with Coming-Out Story.

Firstly, a Coming-Out Story is not necessarily preceded by a character being closeted. For example, a character figures it out themselves and then decides to tell others. Or a character was out previously but then enters a situation (for example, moving to a new school, or entering a new workplace) where they have to come out all over again.

Secondly, even when they do co-occur, they have different focuses. Conflicts about keeping or trying to keep a secret, a character running up against heteronormative expectations (e.g. being badgering about when they're going to get a girlfriend/boyfriend), that stuff relates to closet gay. Deciding how/when/where/to whom they're going to come out and the actual act of coming out and the fallout, that stuff relates to Coming-Out Story.

Come to think of it, Heteronormativity Conflict could probably be its own trope.

Maybe what we need is an inverted counterpart to Out of the Closet, Into the Fire, where being closeted causes more trouble than coming out. That's sort of what I'm thinking with my "closeted character gets chastised by others for not coming out" concept.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Narrative-wise, a character being closeted tends to be used as a starting point for a plot, dramatic tension, comedy at their expense, etc. Character is in the closet— now what? I can't think of a story where someone both starts off and stays in the closet without fitting into another trope like Armored Closet Gay (though hey— maybe it exists and we're just failing to think of examples!). But I agree that there may be a missing supertrope related to closeted characters/plots about being closeted, sexuality or gender identity-wise. (This Index Is In The Closet?)

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like 4 hours later instead of making a new comment: I've been wondering— I tend to make frowny face at indexes that sort into categories because then they aren't fully alphabetized, buuuut... I wonder if it'd be useful to sort Queer as Tropes by character tropes versus narrative/plot tropes to help people locate what they're looking for.

Edited by ImmiThrax on Sep 22nd 2020 at 12:34:29 PM

Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.

Is Adora, title character of Shera And The Princesses Of Power gay? Going by her romantic ANYTHING in the show she us, but when checking the tropes on her Character page she isn't. This is wrong.

Edited by Mareon on Sep 26th 2020 at 12:44:32 PM

I'm sincerely confused by what you mean.

This is on the page: "in the reboot she has only ever shown sexual attraction toward big strong women."

Edited by TheMountainKing on Sep 26th 2020 at 3:46:57 PM

The tropes on a character page are not meant to be understood as a comprehensive collection of absolutely all information that exists about a character.

Her height probably doesn't come up either. Unless she's unusually tall or short. I don't watch this show.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on Sep 26th 2020 at 12:47:39 PM

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Adora's romantic arc is so baked into the story's narrative and especially prominent in the fandom that I highly doubt her sexuality is completely ignored on the trope pages.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I mean, I spent a total of 2 minutes on the She-Ra page and I saw multiple references to Adora and Catra being in love, loving each other, kissing each other, et cetera.

I've seen portions of the show in question and I don't think greater detail is necessary. Kids watching the show will pick up that these ladies are in love the same way that a het couple would be, even if they don't really understand the specifics of sexuality or sex. Adults will see the implications as well, unless they're just tying themselves in knots trying to deny it.

Sometimes you don't have to belabor the point for others to know what you mean.

In addition to the work page, the Adora character sheet has multiple relevant tropes with context describing her love for Catra including: Adaptational Sexuality, Anguished Declaration of Love, Childhood Friend Romance, Femme Lesbian, Love Hurts, Masculine–Feminine Gay Couple, Oblivious to Love, Official Couple, Uptight Loves Wild, and What Is This Thing You Call "Love"?.

If anyone can see all of that and not get the idea "could it be that Adora... likes girls?", we can't help them.

Edited by ImmiThrax on Sep 26th 2020 at 7:32:22 AM

Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.

The name "Adora" is a bit on the nose, wouldn't you say? I think they could only have gotten nearer the mark by calling her "Lesbos" or something.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

That was her name in the original series.

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And yet, many LGBTQ+ people who grew up with the original She-Ra are super delighted/not surprised by the reboot presenting Adora and many other characters as queer like us.

... and I just Googled and found out the creator of the reboot is younger than me what no don't make me feel old

Anyway— if this is about Badass Gay specifically, that was only one potential trope out of the many that presently appear on the pages to describe Adora's character journey and sexuality as an explicitly LGBTQ+ character.

Belated Happy Bi Day to the bi folks on this thread!

Edited by ImmiThrax on Sep 26th 2020 at 11:19:03 AM

Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.

Hell yeah, bi pride! Holding out for the day there's enough significant bi rep to include more positive tropes.

Once I launch/discard at least one of my current drafts, I might draft the trope I've discussed about pressuring people to come out.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.