Writing Pitfall Index cleanup

Welcome to the Writing Pitfall Index cleanup and maintenance thread. We'll be doing the same stuff as the last thread, just in this section of the forum now.

By the power invested in me by the fact that I got here first, I shall lay out the procedures of the thread.

1. It's just a forum thread.
   1. In accordance with this principle, these procedures have no binding power and there is no actual penalty for not following them. I just like procedures.
2. The page has been locked because the editors of the Trope Repair Shop have decided that the judgement of individual editors is insufficient to keep the page in an acceptable state. Therefore, all changes to the page are decided by vote. Votes are decided by thumbs-up/thumbs-down responses in the thread. A vote passes when at least 48 hours have passed since the suggestion was posted, it has a ratio of 2 in favor : 1 against (or greater), and it has at least three votes. The original suggestion counts as a vote in favor. Responses consisting solely of voting on a suggestion are encouraged.
   1. Suggestions to fix typos and change links to renamed pages are automatically passed without a vote.
3. Suggestions to add a trope should include a full entry to be added to the page.
4. Suggestions to edit an entry should include the new version of the entry in full, to prevent ambiguity.
5. Suggestions to remove tropes must explicitly list the tropes to be removed before voting can begin. (Meaning, it's okay to say "We should remove every trope that's on Index Whatever", but voting should wait until those tropes have been found and listed.)

Thread procedures may be added, amended, or removed by suggestion (without a vote, since they're non-binding).

The users of the TV Tropes Forums may now present their suggestions. [bangs gavel]

Edited by JXZ on Sep 18th 2020 at 3:48:05 PM

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

Looks great.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

thanks

• Suggestion 1: Change the header at the top of the page to be the following:

• Suggestion 2: Find all the tropes on the index that are also on Unexpected Reactions to This Index, and then vote to remove them. I think we missed this index when we decided to remove audience reactions.

• Suggestion 3: We should decide on some guidelines for what does and does not belong on the index. There are a few that were suggested in the old thread, and it would be useful to collect them all in one place. Like the thread procedures, they will be non-binding.

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

Should Pacing Problems be a sub-index? It had no indices except for Alliterative Name when I got there, so I've already added it to Narrative Tropes.

I'm back!

It could go under "poor plotting". Could you write a description for it?

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

I can write one for you if necessary.

• Pacing Problems: When writing a story, make sure that the story does not go too fast or too slow, or else the reader may either have a hard time recollecting the events or get impatient with the length.

Also of note: Does Developing Doomed Characters really count as Pacing Problems? I've seen this trope done well multiple times, and I've argue that it doesn't count as one.

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for Pacing Problems.

And yeah, I think you should remove Developing Doomed Characters from Pacing Problems.

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

I think there is consensus now. Someone please make a request to add Pacing Problems to the index.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Sep 11th 2020 at 2:56:24 PM

I'm back!

Please use the locked pages thread for such requests, and not hollers.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Do you think Karma Houdini should be put on the list (under Poor Plotting), for reasons similar to Diabolus ex Machina? Also it runs a pretty high risk of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy (again an indicator of poor writing)

• Karma Houdini: The villain getting away with their misdeeds might be amusing for shock value, but it doesn't make for great storytelling.

Definitely not. A story isn't "better" or "worse" depending on whether it ends in the way (some) readers would have liked.

This leaves me confused as to what you think "good" or "bad" means in the context of writing.

I think it's a good addition. I'd prefer a bit more detail on the description, though. How about:

• Karma Houdini: The villain getting away with their misdeeds might be amusing for shock value, but the audience was probably hoping for karmic retribution instead, and will be left unsatisfied when it never comes.

Also, here's another trope I'd like to add under poor plotting.

• Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?: There needs to be a better answer than "because then the show would end." Villains who refuse obvious ways to win easily will seem stupid or nonthreatening.

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

Yeah this sounds about right

I see Demoted to Satellite Love Interest is there; would Demoted to Comic Relief also count?

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 16th 2020 at 6:14:12 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I don't think so. A Comic Relief character has a lot more potential to be entertaining than a Satellite Love Interest.

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

Makes sense.

I also noticed Jerkass Ball missing despite the other "ball" tropes being there. Seems weird.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Yeah there's no consistency with categories of similar tropes as to what's on the page and what isn't. Feel free to make suggestions.

Also, / on the recent suggestions?

my brain is a computer with 4k of ram. this is a jokes wiki

to the Ball Index as a subindex.

Rock'n'roll never dies!

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I agree that this should be the header at the top of the page.

Karma Houdini

Why Don't You Just Shoot Him?

Demoted to Comic Relief. If a character is demoted to comic relief, it's a sign that a well-developed character has devolved, just like Demoted to Satellite Love Interest.

The Ball Index is already mentioned on the Writing Pit Fall Index under the "See also" section. Before it's added as a sub-index to the page officially, we should review all the tropes on there to see if there's consensus that they all count first.

Are we allowed to propose multiple trope additions or removals in one post?

Edited by Kevjro7 on Dec 6th 2020 at 1:10:32 AM

Uh...idk. I don't have an issue with it.

I do think we should have a crowner going to decide these things.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 6th 2020 at 3:57:17 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

If there's no rule against it (yet), I guess I'll do it now and see what everyone else thinks.

Crazy Characterization

• Informed Flaw: If a character is said to have a flaw, show the flaw affecting the story or character in some way instead of just telling the audience.
• Forgot About His Powers: There needs to be a better explanation than "they forgot" for characters not using their powers that could easily solve a problem.

Edited by Kevjro7 on Mar 19th 2021 at 4:33:30 AM

@War Jay 77: Jerkass Ball isn't there because it allow for circumstance that would explain why they're acting this way (bad day, ex.), as is Villain Ball as it can be due to established character flaws. They allow fir circumstances that aren't innately bad writing.

Other ball tropes are on this list because they are inherently unexplained OOC (explained ones are sub tropes).

@JXZ: Karma Houdini is not bad writing because it's supposed to make audiences unhappy. See Tragedy for how audiences felling bad is not bad writing but even good writing.

This index is about the tropes that make audiences unhappy for different reason than the narrative intends. KH is only this when other bad writing is in effect so those parts go under this index.

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Feb 1st 2021 at 1:46:18 AM

That...makes no sense. Aren't the "ball" tropes intended to be about characters being OOC just to push the plot forward? Why do some of the require OOC and others don't? That's so inconsistent.

I might actually do wick checks since this baffles me so much.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Alright, just asking, does this look like a good entry for Writing Pitfall Index?

• Dear Negative Reader: Raging against your own fanbase is a very good way of creating Fan Disillusionment, causing them to abandon your work, and causes non-fans to see you as a person who Can't Take Criticism.

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Feb 18th 2021 at 6:24:19 AM

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