Death Battle cleanup

Didn't seem like an an effortless one-sided victory to me considering how many hits Wiess got in and was able to exhaust Mitsuru enough to have to resort to healing herself.

See this the problem, you'll take the fact that there was any fight whatsoever as evidence that the opponent stood a chance.

Genos had to Blow himself up to achieve anything against War Machine and he still lost pretty handily, but the fact that he damaged Rhodey's armor doing so is enough for you.

If two characters had that fight that we didn't know diddly about in some different show, you wouldn't care and it would be filed as a stomp, and it honestly comes across as pandering or bias to not include it...

Edited by Happyfrybreath on Oct 8th 2020 at 7:24:52 AM

No the characters wouldn't matter. Like I said Death battle almost never has curbstomps in the animations. Even in fights that they've called one-sided in the analysis the animation usually make both sides seem more balanced than they are and loser not go down without large amounts of effort from the winner.

I mean yeah I mostly meant the analysis sections were almost all stomps when I said that earlier, to be clear (we should maybe do a separate section for that?)

Some of the examples I tried to mention here were even animation stomps though...

Like the Genos one, where Genos does nothing to War Machine the entire fight, then blows himself up to sorta damage War Machine but it doesn't matter because he's doomed now.

Like legitimately I am watching the fight for all of Genos's moves that actually affected War Machine: Here's what I got.

- War Machine makes an effort to dodge his fireballs and flinches once when hit by another flame attack

- He gets in some DBZ fisticuffs for a second, but it doesn't seem to do anything to either of them

- War Machine looks a little worried about Genos until analysis shows him what Genos has

- War Machine surprised by the fist popping off and flying at his face, then Genos pulls himself together while War Machine is apparently accidentally flying to the ground in fist-induced confusion apparently

- He disables War machine's boot for a few seconds

- He gums War Machine to the ground before they just Ghost through it

- He either overpowers War Machine's chest beam with his flamethrower thing or War Machine lets him. Given that War-Machine blasts a hole through Genos's chest a moment later and shows no effect from Genos's blast, it's probably the latter.

- He blows himself up, which makes the War Machine armor and spark with electricity and seem somewhat damaged. Given what we've seen of War Machine this fight, he probably could have ghosted through the blast if he thought it would do much.

Meanwhile War Machine survives everything in Genos's arsenal with zero effort and laughs at him the entire time, even going the He-Man route of both attempting to negotiate with Genos despite the rules of the show

Edited by Happyfrybreath on Oct 8th 2020 at 12:53:21 PM

k, looks it got locked, but idk where else to put this

Deadpool vs Deathstroke doesn't really fit the definition of a stomp does it?

Jax vs Daxter could probably make it more clear that it's only a stomp once Jax runs out of Eco, which he will. Right now it looks like it's contradicting itself by saying "Jax can handle everything they throw at him buuuut it's still a stomp :P")

Tracy vs Scout should probably be removed, since Scout is able to keep up with her after getting her to a vulnerable state (For some reason the fact that he's able to keep up with her in that state is even listed in the entry?!)

Since Mega Man vs Astro Boy was removed, the Zoro vs Erza reference to it should probably be too. (Probably not the example though, assuming it's accurate)

Hulk vs Doomsday is kinda ridiculous to keep especially by the standards we're using since the hosts consider it incredibly close.

I believe that feats should be taken with a grain of salt when they're based on unofficial calculations (remember that Writers Cannot Do Math) or scaling to other characters. Sure, Character A might have a few relativistic reaction feats and city-level durability, but if they've also been shown getting hurt by bullets on other occasions, then that means that someone with a gun IS at least a slight threat to them.

Also, there IS a difference between Foregone Conclusion and Curb-Stomp Battle. If one character is unable to put their opponent down, but would still be able to make them work hard for the win, then it shouldn't be on the page (it could still go under Foregone Conclusion, though). This would mean cutting Hulk VS Doomsday and Ghost Rider VS Lobo.

I'm kinda ambivalent on Genos VS War Machine. On one hand, Genos does get a few hits in. On the other hand, the part where War Machine repeatedly No Sells his strongest attack does make it look like he never really stood a chance.

Rewatching Deadpool VS Deathstroke, and Wiz literally says "This was a surprisingly even match". That's an obvious cut.

Solid Snake VS Sam Fisher looks like another obvious cut. The example literally says that it's a very even fight where each combatant has their own advantages over the other in different ways.

Yang VS Tifa seems like another cut. Yang only wins thanks to a Critical Status Buff, meaning that Tifa did manage to seriously injure her, and she had to be taken to the brink of defeat before she could stand a chance. The animation shows Yang suffering several big hits, and she's rather bloodied in the end.

^ Agree with all of that, though Ghost Rider vs Lobo is a bit of a standard stomp considering how easily Ghost Rider can win with Soul Eating and/or Zarathos (Though most of the curbstomp entry seems to be dedicated to explaining that Lobo has no way to win, could be a fix). Not to mention nothing Lobo does really fazes Ghost Rider since he can heal.

How'd I miss Yang/Tifa and Snake/Sam?! Totally agree with removing those.

Some other IMO:

- Speaking of Foregone Conclusion, Bowser vs Ganon is another example of that, arguably moreso than the others, so it should probably get removed

- Master Chief vs Doomguy is a little iffy... neither the analysis (which is pretty nonexistent actually) nor the fight itself really labels this a stomp, and most of this entry seems to be inferencing why MC wins.

- The part where they note that Archie Sonic stomps Mario (Imagine that fight, lol) should probably be separate from the rest of the Mario entry, like the hypothetical Danny Phantom is from Ben 10.

- The Billy Butcher entry could do a better job of clarifying that Butcher gets curbstomped by everyone else and reverses this with the baby

- The removed Aang vs Edward Elric entry did a pretty good job of explaining why Aang wins handily, and I'd recommend re-adding some of it

Edited by Happyfrybreath on Oct 27th 2020 at 12:33:59 PM

I watched Bowser VS Ganon and Master Chief VS Doomguy, and I have to agree, they aren't particularly stompy.

Some of the examples have been cut from CurbStompBattle.Death Battle after I brought them up in the locked page edit request thread.

Sasuke VS Hiei should be another cut. The analysis says that it was a close fight where Sasuke has several advantages, it's just that Hiei has a few more chances to win. I remember it being described at a 51:49 matchup.

Sure, there's a big difference in feats, but said difference comes from unofficial calculations, which means they shouldn't be taken too literally.

...Fair enough I suppose, it's just that the difference in power is reaaaaaally blatant. Not to mention they only say he wins a few times in very specific situations.

Tbh it's weird that they'd call that close, but I suppose that is grounds for removal

Also I kinda want a second opinion, is Venom vs Crona a stomp?

I didn't really notice before doing a little binging, but Venom is basically unable to do anything whatsoever to Crona, who kills him pretty quickly once she gets on the offensive.

It's incredibly consistent too. Lunge towards Crona? Ragnarok will catch Venom, or Crona will bat em away. Web hitting Crona or Ragnarok? Pull it off/shapeshift respectively. Ensnaring Crona with Venom's own body? Screaming'll take care of that.

Score a hit on her? Her blood'll make it futile.

Once Crona takes the offensive, she's pinned to the ground and futily slashed at for a second, before finishing him off with minimal effort (after he gets a speech in, completely ruining my attempt to say she finishes him off in [insert low # of seconds])

This isn't the analysis I'm talking about

Of course I guess the counterargument is that her demeanor means she doesn't do too much to fight him until the end.

Edited by Happyfrybreath on Nov 3rd 2020 at 1:43:26 AM

"Able to win in a few situations" should probably disqualify it from stomp status. A stomp means "extremely one-sided, where one side just absolutely trashes the other with little-to-no effort" (that's how TV Tropes words it).

And, I don't know about calling the Venom VS Crona animation a stomp. Mainly because of the bit where Venom's blows are able to make Crona dizzy. Though eh, it's true that none of the hits Venom gets in are really meaningful.

What do you think of Sabrewulf VS Jon Talbain? The fight animation was obviously very evenly matched, so no stomp there. But the analysis was all about how Jon massively outclassed Sabrewulf in skill, speed, strength, and power. On the other hand, those feats come from scaling and calculations, so they should probably be taken with a grain of salt, but still, they show that Jon is on a higher level in every way.

I'm kinda ambivalent.

Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 7th 2020 at 2:34:21 PM

Oh that's a nice catch, yeah that analysis is "dang, John is so much better at literally everything :D", that might deserve an addition... the only argument I can find against that being a stomp is where they say "But the reason John wins is because of the Werewolf he was"... which isn't really much

Also wow... Red vs Blue

Did... any of the Reds do anything to a Blue? The only reason any of them outlasted any Blues is because of the teamkiller

Hmm, not sure about Red VS Blue. I might have to rewatch that episode to make sure. But, how does this write-up look?

• "Sabrewulf VS Jon Talbain" had a very close fight animation where both combatants manage to inflict messy injuries on each other... but then the analysis reveals that in reality, it wasn't close at all. The tightest category was speed, with both werewolves having scaling feats that put them around the speed of light, but Jon Talbain's feats are still greater. Speaking of scaling, Talbain's B+ ranking means he can be compared to other incredibly powerful characters, such as Q-Bee, who can lift a gigantic castle estimated to weigh 30 million tons, and Anakaris, who was able to sink all of ancient Egypt, which means his ki can move upwards of 1.2 trillion tons. Putting scaling aside, this difference in ki power can also clearly be seen in their movesets: while Sabrewulf can only project a single tiny fire bat, Jon can summon a massive flaming dragon using his ki. But even if it weren't for that discrepancy in power, the fight would still be stacked against Sabrewulf: he's an Unskilled, but Strong savage who relies on his (killer) instincts in battle and never managed to fully embrace his lycanthropy, while Jon Talbain is Strong and Skilled, with decades of actual martial arts training granting him the self-control to fully master the powers his lupine form grants him. With Jon Talbain coming out on top in terms of both raw power and fighting expertise, Sabrewulf never stood a chance.

EDIT: That last part of the writeup is what pushed me to the "yes, it's a stomp" side: not only does Jon have a huge advantage in raw power, but even if we pretend that Sabrewulf is equally strong, Jon would still win because he's a martial arts expert while Sabrewulf isn't.

Edited by Zuxtron on Nov 17th 2020 at 9:23:06 AM

I like the entry, though I will add:

- Just checked the Curb Stomp Cushion definition and I'm not sure that's correct use?

If the curbstompee manages to get a few good hits in to show that he or she is not totally helpless, it's a Curb Stomp Cushion.

The trope seems to be a side getting stomped, but getting a few hits in... and that's not really an accurate description of the animation or analysis (perhaps both of them combined, but that seems like a stretch)

- Sabrewulf summons several fire bats (They're actually shown to be rather useful in the fight animation, though John does kill them before using his better Dragon)

So maybe (Tweaked for length):

• Sabrewulf VS Jon Talbain had a very close fight animation where both combatants manage to inflict messy injuries on each other... but the analysis then reveals that in reality, it wasn't close at all. While both werewolves have scaling feats that put them both around the speed of light, speed was the closest category and Jon Talbain's feats are still greater. Speaking of scaling, Talbain's B+ ranking means he can be compared to other incredibly powerful characters, such as Q-Bee, who can lift a gigantic castle estimated to weigh 30 million tons, and Anakaris, who was able to sink all of ancient Egypt, which means his ki can move upwards of 1.2 trillion tons. This difference in ki power can also clearly be seen in their movesets: while Sabrewulf can project tiny fire bats, Jon can summon a massive flaming dragon using his ki. But even if it weren't for that rather massive discrepancy in power, the fight would still be stacked against Sabrewulf: he's an Unskilled, but Strong savage who relies on his (killer) instincts in battle and never managed to fully embrace his lycanthropy, while Jon Talbain is Strong and Skilled, with decades of actual martial arts training granting him the self-control to fully master the powers his lupine form grants him. With Jon Talbain coming out on top in terms of both raw power and fighting expertise, Sabrewulf never stood a chance.

I kinda delayed, but I submitted Sabrewulf VS Talbain to the edit requests thread.

I don't think either Batgirl VS Spider-Gwen or Sanji VS Rock Lee are stomps. Maybe the latter of the two, but even then, it's mentioned that Eighth Gate Lee stands a chance. Does it count as a stomp if the only hope one side has is a Taking You with Me attack that still has a chance of failing?

They say Lee likely wins if he can land a hit with it, so... not really? From what I got from the analysis, if Sanji were slower, Lee's Taking You with Me could lead to a stomping of his own (before dying)... though that does admittedly require accepting that Lee can use the eighth gate... which Death Battle does, so we should too.

Seems more of a Foregone Conclusion thing than an outright stomp

Funnily enough I'm more inclined to see Spider-Gwen's victory as a stomp, given they say Batgirl needs access to Gwen's weaknesses to win, and otherwise cannot do it... though given the franchise we're talking about calling it a stomp because of that might possibly be a stretch?

Though here's my hypothetical entry for that anyways:

• Like the first time a Spider-Man character went up against a member of the Bat-Family, Batgirl vs Spider-Gwen is a one-sided affair, with Batgirl being outclassed physically and countered by the Spider-Sense. While Barbara was more intelligent and could feasibly take Gwen down using her symbiote's weaknesses, this possibility was almost moot given Batgirl had no prior knowledge of said weaknesses and simply wouldn't be able to discover and exploit said weaknesses before being taken out, given Gwen's superior speed, strength, and spider-senses.

Edited by Happyfrybreath on Dec 21st 2020 at 11:49:30 AM

(I honestly have no strong opinions on it though)

Ok going through more of the examples on the page:

- Samus vs That one guy with five lines: I kinda want a second opinion on this as the entry seems to just be explaining why Samus won... but I can also kinda inference that it is a stomp from it.

- Rogue vs Wonder Woman: Jury's out on what Zigzagged examples should be allowed, but this probably isn't one of em. The entry is basically "so Wonder Woman would curbstomp Rogue, but not really".

- Vegeta vs Shadow: ...I'm going to quote the episode for this one.

Wiz: With Super Shadow's godly power and invulnerability, the question wasn't if Vegeta could kill Shadow, it was if Vegeta could survive Super Shadow.

- Ryu vs Scorpion: It's another Foregone Conclusion, but mostly because Scorpion gets more powerful in the nether realm over time. Ryu can potentially kill Scorpion even in the meantime though (effectively a "they could win a couple times in 100" example), so should that get removed?

- The Ragna vs Sol entry confuses me. The analysis part seems fine (I'd have to check), but the animation part has this weird tangent where they essentially say "Sol didn't even have to use some of his abilities... admittedly Ragna didn't use his either though"

- Dante vs Bayonetta: I also want a second opinion on this. This seems to be another of the "explaining why they won = stomp" school of some of these entries. Given how much time/effort it takes for Dante to win, The animation and analysis seem to point more to a Foregone Conclusion (given Dante's invulnerability and regeneration are major factors in his win) than a one-sided stomp in which Bayonetta can do nothing... aside from possibly the speed advantage.

- Scout vs Tracer: I... have no idea if this qualifies.

Wiz: Scout was fast and tough, but Tracer's unique arsenal and evasiveness pulled her ahead.
Boomstick: Tracer could avoid almost anything Scout threw at her. Even when she couldn't, her Recall ability not only helped her survive, but effectively ruined any of Scout's elements of surprise.

- Given the conspiratorial nature of some viewers, I'd like to change "supposed to be" to "going to be" here.

(On Ben 10 vs Green Lantern): "So this was always supposed to be a curbstomp, but not the way they intended."

I was thinking of expanding on the Aang vs. Edward Elric since it looks too minimal. How's this?

• In Aang vs. Edward Elric, people predicted Aang would win before the battle even started, and they were proven right. Aang was clearly on a different level than Ed thanks to his versatile bending moves and more experience thanks to the past Avatars, and the Avatar State itself turns him into a Physical God capable of curb-stomping the Fire Lord himself where Ed had nothing to even compare to that. Even the fight animation shows: Aang is in complete control throughout the entire fight, where he either blocks or dodges every single attack from Edward before finally deciding to go all-out by going into his Avatar State, which obliterates Edward on his first attempt. Edward didn't even stand a chance.

Edited by Tehrannotaur on Feb 4th 2021 at 12:45:24 PM

What skills/powers does Edward Elric have?

Edward has transmutation, and due to his contact with the gate of truth, can do it without making a transmutation circle. More can be seen here https://fma.fandom.com/wiki/Edward_Elric#Abilities

Here was the original entry

Aang vs. Edward Elrichas the Avatar take it. Aang has more options in his arsenal than Edward does at any given moment. While Edward's greatest strength feat measures around 30 Kilotons of TNT, Aang is about 5 times stronger. This strength difference meant that Aang could easily destroy Edward's Automail Arm, preventing his use of Combat Alchemy (which requires him to clap his hands). The speed difference was also clear-cut, as Edward's bullet-dodging feat is nothing compared to Aang being able to react to lightning, and while Ed has potentially lightning-level reaction feats as well, Aang's seismic sense on top of his reflexes further puts the advantage in his corner. Theoretically, Edward does possess the option to equal Aang's power output, but that is a big theoretical. It would require him to sacrifice his life force like a Philosopher's Stone and even then, the duration is far too short (since he's using his own singular soul rather than a massive collection) and the risk is far more dangerous compared to Aang's Avatar state, which has no such trade-offs whatsoever. Aang just had too much power, speed, and versatility for Edward to compete with. In the fight animation, we see Aang either dodging or blocking every attack Ed throws at him, while he's able to keep landing blows.

Edited by Tehrannotaur on Feb 6th 2021 at 10:22:27 AM

Ah right this thread exists!

Well I'm not sure anyone's still here but I guess I'll weigh in:

Aight looking through the thread, the reason for removal was...

...

Yeah that's a little ridiculous, I'd be down for putting that entry back in.

I will say though, we should not be considering stuff outside the show (even Edward's actual abilities) when deciding what should qualify (Though that stuff can probably go in the entries).

That said the analysis in the episode really does back up your claim.

This latest Death Battle (Shadow vs. Ryūko Matoi) is pretty stompy death battle, with Shadow dominating Ryūko in every way that mattered, with his far superior speed and time manipulation giving him the ability to prevent her Healing Factor from kicking in and putting her down for good. The only tangible advantage she had — being able to one-shot Shadow while he was in base form — meant little considering that Shadow was still far faster than her, making it nigh-impossible for her to actually land a fatal blow to begin with. Super Shadow in and of itself was absolute overkill, as even one single Chaos Emerald would've already put Shadow directly on par with Ryūko's best — something he can accomplish easily via removing his inhibitor rings.

Should this be added?

Honestly, this is one fight that I agree could be a good candidate. Maybe say that it's not a complete stomp while Shadow's in his base form, but that once he goes Super, Ryuko doesn't stand a chance anymore.