Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

Skimming that one, it could also use a cleanup. Note how that page is much shorter than True Capitalist's page, though.

(For the record, you could always bring these pages up any time you want, not just when we're talking about another show.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 25th 2021 at 9:51:08 AM

talk shows, especially political ones, kind of have the same issues as let's plays (which have been discussed elsewhere) of getting dangerously close to troping real people, with the only real justification being that they're discussing tropes. in the case of political shows, you end up getting a lot of examples that trope real life people or events under the guise of it being discussed on the show, which results in an odd and somewhat annoying loophole. i would be totally fine with getting rid of talk show trope pages if they don't they have an actual narrative, or at least discuss media with narratives and not real life issues.

Right, I'm on board with cutting works that lack any sort of proper narrative or creative content. But this might be outside the scope of this thread.

Not just that, but for some tropes, the Real Life section contain examples of talk show hosts discussing politics.

Is someone going to review the Space Jews example on the previous page?

Tentative cut for the Genshin thing. Young Turks has no plot. Cut.

If there is no plot and too much focus on politics for TCR, cut that too.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 26th 2021 at 7:15:43 AM

Example is cut. Thanks!

I didn't even know TYT had a page. Cut it then, we don't trope news shows.

And while we're at it, Fox News Channel, MSNBC, and Russia Today should go as well for the same reason.

Not sure why we have news pages if there's not much fiction to trope about them. Wouldn't having news pages be asking for a political edit war?

I think that's what those pages are for: to intentionally start political debates. All the more reason to cut them.

i feel like the barely justified reason they exist is that there are some tropes primarily associated with real life news networks, like Fox News Liberal, and even then those are No Real Life Examples, Please!

I've mentioned in the past that we really ought to turn all those TV news channels pages into a UsefulNotes.American Network News page or something like that, because their existence does have some relevance to other media but isn't really a tropable thing in itself.

I like that idea.

Coming in late, but please cut True Capitalist. He's a political talk show host with no fictional content. As far as I can tell, literally the only reason he's on the wiki is because he became a 4chan troll target. The page is also extremely low on actual stuff from his show, being mostly about the 4chan trolling and remixes of his stuff. Nothing of value would be lost if it were cut.

And yes, I'm all for cutting political pundits/news shows, regardless of ideology, unless they have some fictional component. (For example, I see Stephen Colbert as being a comedian as much as a political commentator, but I'll willingly admit it's not a clear-cut line.) It boggles my mind that we have debates about whether to keep things like Let's Plays and forum roleplays, yet have all this space devoted to creators/shows that are clearly non-fiction.

Edited by DoktorvonEurotrash on Apr 26th 2021 at 12:28:22 PM

The Colbert presented on The Colbert Report is very much a satirical character, as it's a satire of political commentators and the Colbert on the show is not meant to reflect the real Colbert's opinions (i.e. the real Colbert being left-wing while the fictional Colbert is a hard conservative). Ergo, it's very much fictional.

The Daily Show and its spiritual spinoffs is where it might get muddy.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 26th 2021 at 3:36:35 PM

What about Canadian news satire shows This Hour Has 22 Minutes and The Rick Mercer Report?

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 26th 2021 at 11:39:45 AM

For some reason, the YMMV page for Command & Conquer: Generals have turned into a massive, in-depth review of Chinese politics...

• The Chinese military being able to deploy massive forces far from China in the Middle East and Europe was a pipe dream in 2003. As of 2015, China has begun plans to build its first overseas military base in East Africa in Djibouti, the same strategic location where the U.S. has a major air base that allows it easy access to the Middle East, South Asia, and Africa. This base officially opened in 2017. In that same year, China considered setting up another base in the Azores after the American base there nearly shut down, further establishing another strategic foothold in a location that provides convenient access to Europe, Africa, and the Americas. This, at least, did not go through, and the U.S. Air Force still maintains control of Lajes Field.
• Speaking of which, there is an implied heavy Uighur presence in the GLA, as they're shown to have several bases in China and an antipathy towards the PLA in particular. The idea of Uighur militants being a serious security threat was far-fetched at the time of the game's release, as ever since the USSR collapsed and stopped fueling the Xinjiang conflict, Uighur terrorists have been mostly limited to small bands conducting attacks with improvised weapons like trucks, pipe bombs, or machetes, with only a handful actually having military-grade small arms, much less anything bigger. The Syrian Civil War changed this: taking advantage of the lawless situation and plentiful amount of arms floating around the area due to the total collapse of the army in several regions, about 5,000 Uighur Muslim extremists migrated to Syria to form their own jihadist militant group. They have fought as allies of Al-Qaeda, becoming far more of a threat than they were in China.
• Despite the game itself being Banned in China literally, one wonders if the Communist Party of China actually played the game while analyzing geopolitical trends of the past ten years to the present day, judging how, allegedly to prevent extremism and terrorism, the government is trying to suppress Islamic-related activities in Xinjiang to the point that it has gone so far as establishing re-education camps to remove most traces of Islamic influences in Uighur culture.
• The second mission of the China campaign, "Hong Kong Crisis," looks terrifyingly prophetic as of June 2019, as enormous anti-PRC protests have erupted throughout the territory and have continued for months on end. Official state-run news outlets in August 2019 declared the protests to be "signs of terrorism" and China analysts are monitoring the situation to see if the People's Liberation Army will mobilize to pacify the region. In the end, the COVID-19 pandemic turned out to be quite convenient for the PRC, as it ended up silencing the protests by ending mass gatherings, and military action turned out to be unnecessary as Beijing ended up passing a national security law in July 2020 that de facto applied mainland law to Hong Kong, essentially eliminating the territory's "special" status and turning it into simply another Chinese province in all but name.

I feel that the wall of text have less to do with the game and more with comparing "Who's who" in terms of being a global superpower... permission to erase?

Ghost of True Capitalist also claims to be a character. Is he fooling anyone?

Except the show's depiction of Stephen Colbert is literally classified as a fictional character distinct from the real one. As in, his politics are antithetical to the real Colbert's. It's not an "exaggerated depiction of myself" shtick, but closer to "an exaggerated depiction of somebody else."

Like I said, the other shows are difficult but I know we can keep Colbert because it actually stars a fictional character, even if it uses them to discuss politics.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 27th 2021 at 12:23:58 PM

Besides, Colbert also has comedy and things besides politics. Even if he wasn't playing a character, he'd be tropeworthy enough anyway.

Isn't colbert's character their an actual parody?

Like he doesn't actually believe in that stuff

Yes. Both Colbert-the-character and Ghost are parodies.

The main difference to me is that Colbert gives us things besides politics to talk about, like fictionalized comedy sketches. I don't know much about TCR, and I could be wrong, but scrolling down the page, it's all just either troping how Ghost acts, or troping his political opinions, and I'm not sure the character of Ghost is enough by itself to justify a page.

A more fitting comparison to Colbert would be Chris Ray Gun, because the Chris that's portrayed in the videos is a fictionalized version of himself (same with Ghost and Colbert), but also, Chris has skits and songs and non-political content to talk about, similar to Colbert, so Chris's politics aren't the main thing we're discussing.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 27th 2021 at 2:09:12 PM

Maybe Ghost is a tropeworthy character, and the problem is just the particular group focusing on his page. It seems to have been made by those who enjoy trolling the guy.

Could we try cleaning the page of ROCEJ-sensitive material and misuse and stuff and then seeing if it's still problematic?

To be honest, I don't think the cut rationale given here is convincing. It really feels like we are reaching to draw a distinction.