Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment - Violations, misuse, and other issues

IMO DMOS should be limited to long-form works such as films and series. It isn't a place to complain about commercials you don't like, it's a place to vent about disappointing moments in your favorite works.

Commercials can be long-term works in the sense that many commercials are part of a series, such as certain GEICO ads. But I agree the page could be cleaned of entirely solo ads not connected to a company that advertises a lot, which usually includes PSAs. Maybe I'll take it to ATT or something. I was just concerned about this particular entry defending slurs.

I meant take the issue of DethroningMoment.Advertising's existence to ATT. I brought the specific entry here. Should I take that to ATT too?

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 20th 2021 at 3:40:02 PM

The entry you brought up is a ROCEJ disaster. It literally starts out complaining about "cancel culture." Definitely take it to ATT if that's where it could be dealt with.

If you feel like DethroningMoment.Advertising is enough of a problem page, go ahead and take it to ATT.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 20th 2021 at 5:54:12 AM

I found this on Quotes.Dystopia Justifies The Means.

"I was there on 4chan when it was created. The 'I was fooled by a con job' is a RIDICULOUS excuse for Qanon. These people had to accept numerous fascist talking points and deliberately believe the overthrow of democracy as well as institution of martial law by DONALD TRUMP was a good thing. Plus that their enemies were pedophile Satanists.

"It's an evil ideology that evil people embraced because they wanted to. They wanted to demonize their opponents and did so with the most vile attacks possible. They did so because they wanted to destroy democracy."

—Charles Phipps on QAnon, The General U.S. Politics Thread

According to the edit history, this was added by a troper named Brendan Rizzo on January 21st 2020.

Should this be removed?

Ugh...Q Anon gives me bad vibes from what I've seen. I say remove it, but that's mainly an emotional reaction, so...

I mean, at least it's criticizing QAnon. Though that's still a ROCEJ violation. Still, can we quote forum threads in posts, especially in this context?

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 20th 2021 at 7:03:15 AM

I really think we should remove this.

I agree that QAnon is a vile cult, but that quote doesn't really sound like it's describing Dystopia Justifies the Means. I believe it should be cut.

Edited by rjd1922 on Feb 20th 2021 at 8:46:28 AM

This is the third time I've brought this up, I apologize, but Politics is a mess. Not only is there a lot of ROCEJ-violating content, but the reason I brought this up is because Politics Trump Administration has now been created, is extremely long, and has blatant ROCEJ issues all over it. What should we do?

Honestly, I don't think having a Politics section for that is a good idea at all.

Those subpages should really just be cut. They're about as far off-mission as a useful notes page on dirt would be.

Edited by Serac on Feb 21st 2021 at 11:20:48 AM

So how would we do that? Wait for consensus and put on the cut list?

The problem was we ran these subpages through the Real Life section crowner, but instead of voting on each subpage, we just lumped them into one category. They weren't all equally problematic, so there was no consensus to remove them all. We'd need to go back to that thread and maybe convince them to do a revote.

NVM

Edited by dsneybuf on Feb 21st 2021 at 10:15:39 AM

Aye.

Though I'm not really sure what the procedure is if there's a vote to keep misuse. Even without the potential controversy issue, politicians do not even fit the definition of "creator" that the trope requires (exceptions like Ronald Reagan aside, but still, it would only apply to stuff he did as an actor, not as a politician).

Edited by Morgenthaler on Feb 22nd 2021 at 4:10:12 AM

I brought the description of Theatre.Othello up in the Wall of Text cleanup and somebody said it might be a ROCEJ violation on top of really rambly and irrelevant. How should we cut it down?

" One thing that must be said is that the play is, along with a lot of contemporary works, far Harsher in Hindsight. It was written over two centuries before the scientific classification of races and the development of racial hierarchies and stereotypes as we understand them today, not that today's understanding of the concept is quite the same. 'Race' is by no means a static, universal concept. That's not to say people didn't look down on people who weren't from their village, or their county, but people's worlds were much smaller back then, and stereotyping and discrimination were in all probability a local or inter-county thing at the time.

It's worth noting that in times past, it was usual for white actors to play Othello by way of Blackface, up to and past the 1960s, although Black actors have played the part occasionally since at least the 19th century. Thus, the early Othello movies have a white Othello. It is a case of post-facto Values Dissonance, but it does not make such portrayals inherently bad. As a Christian Moor, or part-Moor (as in, from Morocco, although that was a catch-all term to refer to any kind of African), Othello could have been anything from a fair-skinned and blonde-haired Kabyle to quite dark, the phenotypical diversity of Morocco being what it is— but he was most likely some light to medium shade of brown, like◊ most◊ Moroccans. We don't really know for sure. In his most recent portrayals he has been portrayed by very dark actors, and the "racism" angle—often using racial stereotypes as understood in the modern USA—has been played up considerably. This is even more severe of a Race Lift, as Morocco's predominantly Berber population (the most likely inspiration for Othello) is, in fact, caucasian, and someone in the Mediterranean Basin was unlikely to have ever even seen a Sub-Saharan African (bar Egypt's connection with modern Sudan) in the 16th century. What slaves there were in the 16th Century Mediterranean were predominantly Slavic peoples from eastern Europe, and if anyone was doing the slaving it was probably an Italian (specifically Genoan or Venetian), a Turk, or a Tatar. Racial characterisation of Sub-Saharan African peoples as inferior, the way we understand racism against them today, came after this period. A phenomenon largely, but not entirely, confined to the Americas it was a post-facto justification of sorts for the trans-Atlantic slave trade when it got going in earnest over a century later."

None of that sounds particularly relevant to Othello, although that doesn't mean much considering I have never read or watched a performance of Othello.

Also "up to and past the 1960s" reminds me of that XKCD comic where it's pointed out that "up to 15% or more!" is a completely useless description that could be used to describe literally any value.

Alright, I have a question to ask in this thread, and it's very important. This is in regards to my Little Nuns TLP draft.

Is Little Nuns by itself ROCEJ-material? I'm asking this because of its associated fanfic Sister Floriana, which is an alt-right historical revisionist story using Diva's same artworks. I don't want to end up launching a potential alt-right work into the site.

Edited by DivineFlame100 on Feb 28th 2021 at 5:54:06 AM

By itself, I don't think so.

I don't see a problem with making the page if Little Nuns by itself doesn't contain any of the alt-right content. Besides, Diva has over 172 thousand Twitter followers, while Sister Floriana only has 2.5 thousand reads on Wattpad.

My understanding is that the artist behind Little Nuns has nothing to do with Sister Floriana or the alt-right. Sister Floriana is basically someone taking these pictures, likely without permission, and making up a story to go with them.

I don't know... Ever since Sister Floriana got brought up regarding a certain troper who's now suspended (and who's name I have completely forgotten at this point), I'm starting to doubt that Little Nuns is as wholesome as it lets on. Maybe there is some direct connection between the two that I failed to take into account.

I don;t think you should be concerned. Given how hamfisted Sister Floriana was, I don't think Little Nuns is an issue

Even Sister Floriana barely qualified as an Alt-Right work.

Alright, I'll take your word for it. Thanks.