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In order to properly evaluate a Hate Sink candidate, the following questions must be answered.

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What is the work?

State the work and which medium it is a part of, as well as what the work is about.

Who is the character, and what do they do?

State who the character is, and what courses of action they take.

What makes them personally despicable?

State the specific reasons they are despicable, such as petty behaviour and personal villainy.

Evil Is Cool traits? Complexity? Freudian Excuse?

State whether or not the character has any traits which get in the way of them being despicable, and if so, whether said traits are de-emphasised in favour of their despicable behaviour.

Verdict?

State whether or not you believe the criteria are met.

In order for this trope to be in effect, the character in question must actually display detestable qualities, and be hated by other characters at least, or treated by the narrative like someone you are supposed to hate. The author’s declared intent cements an example, but is not needed if the narrative itself treats the character as someone who is supposed to be hated.

Haman the Agagite, for instance, displays qualities of ego, bigotry, and pettiness; additionally, there is a custom of jeering at his name’s mere mention. It goes without saying, according to this thread, that Haman was intended to be despised by the audience. Being a Draco in Leather Pants, like Draco Malfoy, or a character people Love to Hate, like Joffrey Baratheon, doesn’t preclude being a Hate Sink; being a Complete Monster, like Haman, certainly doesn't preclude this trope either.

The main concern is whether the narrative treats the character as someone intended to be despised.

With regards to this trope, actions still generally speak louder than words. The format of editing which brings up characters who don't fit the bill, doesn't generally go into enough detail with regards to what makes these characters loathsome.

The entries for this trope should focus on who does qualify, not the characters who do not.

Admittedly, this trope is less complex, but, because a Hate Sink carries out loathsome actions the same way a Complete Monster carries out evil actions, and a Magnificent Bastard carries out clever actions, it is ostensibly necessary to write these entries with a similar structure, albeit usually with a shorter paragraph.

Edited by gjjones on May 28th 2019 at 5:46:22 AM

Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Jan 30th 2019 at 12:47:39 AM

On the Big Bad /Hate Sink thing above. I think it's worth noting that, while your meant to root against the Big Bad, some examples commit acts of PERSONAL cruelty unlike a standard villain. For example a standard villain is a guy who wants to blow up a planet. A Hate Sink has Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil on top of that. I think a good example of what I mean is Spades king from deltarune. Wanting to wage war against the world of light Would not have made him this. His terrible treatment of his son and later when he Forces his son to watch His friends die does.

Edited by Kylotrope on Jan 30th 2019 at 12:47:56 PM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Jan 30th 2019 at 7:32:41 AM

Wouldn't that push them into the territory of Complete Monster?

Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Jan 30th 2019 at 9:21:32 AM

11, maybe. But so what?

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Jan 30th 2019 at 1:36:03 PM

They don't need to be quite that terrible. It's more important that they're very clearly not sympathetic.

Check out my fanfiction!
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Jan 30th 2019 at 5:40:13 PM

@Another Duck Yeah I was just giving examples.

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Feb 4th 2019 at 7:04:55 PM

Look at this.

Not only did this entry spend more time describing the characters who are not Hate Sinks, but it didn't properly explain why the yuppies qualify for this trope.

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Feb 5th 2019 at 4:18:03 AM

Probably a proper example, but yeah, the writeup is misaimed.

Check out my fanfiction!
Feb 5th 2019 at 8:39:47 AM

  • Horatio Hornblower: Midshipman Jack Simpson is a snivelling coward, a sadistic bully, an apathetic, lazy leader and an attempted murderer. Simpson is scum, pure and simple. However, true to the trope, viewers love to hate him. He's a compelling villain.

Doesn't Love to Hate go against this trope?

WarJay77 Spooky Scary from Upstate New York Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Spooky Scary
Feb 5th 2019 at 9:36:20 AM

[up]It does.

Female troper who likes Pokemon, ARGs, Writing, and more. / Links: Sandbox.Zero Context Example Thread - Sandbox.Roleplay Cleanup Thread
AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Relationship Status: In season
No, the other one.
Feb 5th 2019 at 1:49:29 PM

The thing is, the example describes the character as a Hate Sink pretty much perfectly. There's nothing about that that implies he's written to be liked. Everything points towards a character you're supposed to root against. That's what a Hate Sink is all about.

How the audience actually reacts isn't relevant for Hate Sink. Love to Hate is an Audience Reaction. Hate Sink is an objective trope. They're not mutually exclusive.

Love to Hate also claims to be a supertrope to a number of objective tropes, which is plain wrong.

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Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Feb 6th 2019 at 9:42:18 PM

I'm gonna request a cut. Earth X Oliver. From the Arrowverse crisis on earth X special

Hate Sink: An utterly detestable human being, he seeks to subjugate and kill anyone whom he deems even slightly different or weak. While it can be argued that his only redeeming quality is his genuine love for his wife, it was ultimately their shared hatred and fascism that brought them together in the first place. No tears were shed for him when Earth-1 Oliver guts him in the final battle.

He's a Monster no doubt. But A.It isn't his only redeeming quality, as he both loves his wife AND mourns the death of his friend Prometheus. And Thawne pisses him off if my memory serves right. And B. Hes in the same arc as Earth X Sturmmbanfuher Lance who is far more accurately described as...

Hate Sink: Even more so than everyone else on the Nazi side, except maybe Thawne. To put it simply, Dark Arrow, Overgirl, Prometheus and Siren all express care for somebody at some point. Lance, on the other hand, killed his own daughter and is proud of it.

Lance is specifically meant to be UNIQUE in his lack of redeeming qualities, and personal cruelty in comparison to his superiors. So I don't think X-Oliver should be here.

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 6th 2019 at 9:44:41 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Feb 11th 2019 at 9:22:43 PM

Recap.The Powerpuff Girls Twas The Fight Before Christmas:

  • Hate Sink: Princess has done some really awful things in the past, but this episode, she really takes the cake. She outright switches the Nice-Naughty list, making it look like everyone in the world (especially the innocent people who earned their place on the Nice list) will be condemned to a Christmas of cold hard coal in their stockings, all so she can have what she wants for Christmas. Needless to say, when she and the Powerpuff girls are racing to the North Pole to reach Santa first, no one in the audience is cheering for Princess.

I question if one-shot portrayal of characters who aren't normally this count. Besides, how is this worse than standard villainy and lack any cool traits?

Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Feb 11th 2019 at 9:56:31 PM

[up] That is a good question. Hate Sink is always Depending on the Writer. Especially with Negative Continuity or a Long Runner. Thus, theoretically, a person who is not normally a Hate Sink can be a Hate Sink for one episode if this particular episode is a standalone story. But I think that's more of a Compressed Vice or Jerkass Ball if anything else.

For the record, as for Princess Morbucks in general, I would say she's a Hate Sink given that her regular competition is Mojo Jojo, Him, Fuzzy, Rowdyruff Boys, Sedusa, Gangreen Gang, and the Amoeba Boys; all of whom are either Laughably Evil, have redeeming factors, or invokes Evil Is Cool; aspects that she lacks. Her 2016 incarnation doesn't count based on what I read about Poorbucks.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 11th 2019 at 9:57:51 AM

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
Feb 17th 2019 at 6:04:35 PM

Someone just added this.

rjd1922 Paladin from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Paladin
Feb 18th 2019 at 12:15:20 PM

On HateSink.Ace Attorney, I think Manfred von Karma and the Big Bad of Spirit of Justice have too many Evil Is Cool traits to count. I'm on the fence regarding Dahlia Hawthorne.

Steel be with you.
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Feb 25th 2019 at 4:17:51 PM

[tdown] to Karma if all that's true.

Any Thoguts on X Oliver?

Edited by Kylotrope on Feb 26th 2019 at 10:34:22 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Mar 2nd 2019 at 1:13:30 AM

This was deleted under YMMV.Harry Potter And The Order Of The Phoenix because "That's just pure hate, as in Hate Sink, there's NOTHING to "love" about."

  • Love to Hate: Few, if any, fictional characters are as supremely and utterly despicable as Dolores Umbridge.

This beings the question of how/can Hate Sink and Love To Hate overlap (I believe Hate Sink is the omission of Evil Is Cool, not Love To Hate). As is, the example fails to explain the "Love" part.

Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Mar 2nd 2019 at 2:07:21 AM

I've kind of thought of it this way. People can Love to Hate a Hate Sink BECAUSE there such a good, utterly detestable Hate Sink. As in there popular for that specific reason.

I think a good replacement would be

Love to Hate:Doloures Umbridge is one of the most infamously loathable charachters in all of Fiction, to the point of outright memetic levels. And she's become one of the most popular villains in the Series for that specific reason.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 2nd 2019 at 2:09:58 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Mar 2nd 2019 at 3:57:19 AM

I agree with Kylo. HS and LTH aren't mutually exclusive. It is not exactly the same as the Evil Is Cool trope.

Bryce Walker from 13 Reasons Why is a good example. He is in no way a likable character being a disturbingly realistic serial rapist that hits close to home, but I have heard quite a few people who say they enjoy watching him mainly to see him get his comeuppance. The fact though that the show frequently shows off his manipulative side, along with the fact that he doesn't lose his composure too often I think helps. No one says he's "cool" or their favorite character just that he's good villain with some depth.

It also helps that other villains in the series such as Monty or Seth. Are portrayed as simply violent thugs who the show makes no attempt to portray as intelligent, manipulative or otherwise.

Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Mar 2nd 2019 at 6:58:06 AM

Welcome Username. Glad to have a new guy to the thread!

And again, Thoguts on X Oliver anyone?

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 2nd 2019 at 2:32:16 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Mar 4th 2019 at 12:55:57 PM

Found this thread, thankfully.

I'm going to offer the suggesting of cutting the entire page. Enh, the way it's written now makes it YMMV for a lot, and you're going to run into a lot of Draco in Leather Pants problems (I love Cruella De Vil). And a lot of characters are villains that we're supposed to root against in any case.

That said, I do think there's a trope in there somewhere. From what I recall, it was mainly meant for villains/characters that serve an antagonistic role but aren't the main threat/main villain. Something like Billy Zane's character from Titanic (still a jerk but not an iceberg-level one), or P.J. Byrne's character from Black Lightning (Jefferson has a lot to worry about as Black Lightning and this guy isn't making it easy in his civilian life). They're the furthest thing from actual threats, but they compound the protagonist's situation/life just by making it a bit more difficult. Just to snowclone that idea, maybe just name that particular trope Lesser Scope Villain or something.

Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Mar 4th 2019 at 3:08:06 PM

@Mega

No. Just no. This is for villains the writer wants the audience to hate. How the Audience reacts is YMMV another subject matter entirely.

And the Big Bad can still be this. Because not every Big Bad makes the cruelty PERSONAL. For example Bowser from super Mario dosent count as this cause his villainy is fairly standard. The spades king from Deltarune still counts though because he's a sadistic bully who tries to force his son to watch his friends die

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 4th 2019 at 3:16:32 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely
Mar 4th 2019 at 5:51:07 PM

I just don't think "hateable person" is enough of a trope for it to warrant collecting tropes. What's the tool at use here? For the viewer/reader/consumer to channel their hatred into this one particular character for....what purpose? The main page lays out situations where we typically (not always) see them and those reasons are valid, but then a lot of the examples don't pay attention to this criteria. So do we prune those examples or just toss the page?

Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Mar 4th 2019 at 6:08:51 PM

[up] We can start by keeping examples that have author's intent. If Word of God intentionally made it clear that the character in question is deliberately, by design, made to be a punching bag for the audience to use and should not be gander any sympathy, then I think those ought to be kept. In other words, yes, prune the examples that don't count.

And for the record, Lesser Scope Villain is a terrible name for a trope. Many Hate Sink characters aren't really villains, but unpleasant characters that pales in comparison to actual threats and villains.

Edited by Shadao on Mar 4th 2019 at 6:12:10 AM

Here's the Sink: Hate Sink Drafts | Hate Sink Dates | Hate Sink To Do Lists | Pending Write-Ups
Kylotrope The Good Doctor
The Good Doctor
Mar 4th 2019 at 6:14:46 PM

There's many many many cases where a charachter is meant to be Hateable. And frankly there so many that it's quiet trope worthy. If your not interested in the trope? Just ignore it.

Also, I don't think Word of God should be ESSENTIAL. Rather it's simply how his scenes are played wnd such. Unless of course it's a case where it's debatable if the writer intended it.

Also Mega, there's a number of reasons as to why a writer would make the charachter Hateable. To make his defeat more satisfying, to represent and display the horror of something in real life through them(Like the Slavers from the punisher) so on. Oh and Also? You ask if we should just prune examples or Get rid of the page.....No offense intended. But I think the existence of this thread should make it clear it's the former.

Now. Again, can I PLEASE hear some thoughts on X Oliver from earlier?

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 4th 2019 at 6:23:49 AM

Cut them Down and Make them Holy, forgiven on this ground solely

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