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Needs Help (titles crowner 25 June 2019): Woman In White

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Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Mar 11th 2019 at 2:30:52 PM

Mystical White Dress, perhaps?

lavendermintrose Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Apr 7th 2019 at 8:52:02 PM

> "Woman in White is a distinct character type. They are the "Other". The "Other" could be pure, insane, whatever, the important part is that they're not of this world. ... It fails to get across the fact that the character is supposed to be otherworldly in the first place. They're not necessarily important, but they are alien to some extent."

From the first post.

Why is this not good enough?

Also, it should not be Always Female. There is nothing about this idea that is necessarily gendered, other than the assumption that most writers think that way, which isn't necessarily true. I can think of several male examples that fit that description, and they don't fit it any less just because they aren't female. To think that only a female character could fit this trope is a case of Men Act, Women Are, or Men Are Generic, Women Are Special, and we should be encouraging writers to use tropes like this in a less gendered way.

... sort of Mystical White Hair but for clothes.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Apr 8th 2019 at 3:08:21 AM

Alright, lets see some male examples, then.

I am not disputing that there are male variants, but I highly suspect that this is mainly a female trope, especially in older works.

I understand the urge to keep things gender neutral, but I also think tropes should be descriptive, not prescriptive. If the trope is entirely or near-entirely gendered female, then it should be described as such.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Apr 21st 2019 at 4:26:08 PM

Doing a wick check for Man in White, I stumbled on these male examples of a mysterious, deathly man dressed in white:

  • Beta Ray Bill: Left on the brink of death after defeating Omega Ray, Bill's soul was transferred into the newly-dead body of Simon Walters after an encounter with a mysterious Man in White.
  • Theatre/Elisabeth: Death wears white at some point of every production. In some versions he only wears white in the prologue and final scene, and in others he spends almost half the show in white.

Given this and the recent discussion, I think the way forward would be to create a new White Is Death supertrope, and rework Woman in White into being specific allusions to the White Lady ghost legend, as discussed here and here.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Apr 21st 2019 at 4:35:55 PM

I think that could work.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
May 17th 2019 at 11:00:52 AM

I added the options from [up][up] to the crowner. It looks like something has decent consensus in the crowner, but the crowner's broken so who knows what it is. Anyone know how to fix this?

There also seem to be way more crowner options than I remember.

Edited by naturalironist on May 17th 2019 at 2:01:20 PM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
May 17th 2019 at 11:17:22 AM

I changed most of the crowner entries back (someone already fixed one or two of them).

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jun 5th 2019 at 8:22:38 PM

  • Rename, redefine to "white-clothed character has already died, at least metaphorically" (yeas:19 nays:8)
  • Create a new trope, White Means Death, to cover other examples of death-coded white characters (yeas:3 nays:1)
  • Redefine Woman in White to specifically focus on the White Lady Ghost legend (yeas:1 nays:0)

Additional options are all in the red. Note that new options have been added sice the last recap.


I don't think option A and option C are mutually exclusive, and may be of benefit to do both.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Jun 12th 2019 at 6:17:24 AM

[up]C is more specific than A. I suppose we could rework the description to include more discussion of C without making it a requirement for the trope.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jun 12th 2019 at 8:16:07 AM

To me, "rename and redefine" and "redefine" are similar enough to "split" that I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Under that interpretation, Woman in White would be the trope for references to the legend and some other trope would be the "mysterious otherworldly figure who has metaphorically died". Naturally they would cross-reference each other.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jun 16th 2019 at 8:17:08 AM

  • Rename, redefine to "white-clothed character has already died, at least metaphorically" (yeas:21 nays:8)
  • Create a new trope, White Means Death, to cover other examples of death-coded white characters (yeas:4 nays:3)

Additional options are all in the red. I'm hollering for the crowner to be called because we have one supramajority option and eleven days of voting shows the other options as being strongly contested.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Berrenta MOD Heating things up from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Heating things up
Jun 16th 2019 at 12:07:46 PM

Calling in favor of rename/redefine.

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Jun 23rd 2019 at 8:11:02 AM

To me, "rename and redefine" and "redefine" are similar enough to "split" that I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Under that interpretation, Woman in White would be the trope for references to the legend and some other trope would be the "mysterious otherworldly figure who has metaphorically died". Naturally they would cross-reference each other.
The recent re-write of Sandbox.Woman In White by ~crazysamartian seems to have done the opposite of this, making the desciption more general. This is consistent with the crowner, but the re-write removed all references to the ghost legend. Since making references to the White Lady ghost legend its own trope didn't get enough votes, it seems like we should lump them in Woman in White.

Suggested addition to the sandboxed description:

This trope has its origins in the legend of the White Lady, a figure in ghost stories throughout the world associated with loss of a loved one or a sense of purity before death. Stringy-Haired Ghost Girl and Yuki Onna are specific variants of the legend from Eastern media.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands
Redmess
Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:18:24 AM

I think that's acceptable.

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jun 23rd 2019 at 10:52:21 AM

I'd use "are similar legends" instead of "are specific variants of the legend".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Jun 25th 2019 at 6:35:43 AM

Updated the sandbox.

Since the thread voted to rename, here's a crowner for possible names. Feel free to add other options.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Jun 25th 2019 at 6:49:16 AM

[up] Thanks; it's hooked and the thread title's updated to reflect the change.

Resize || Upgrades || My dA page
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Jun 28th 2019 at 1:39:23 PM

Updated sandbox to reference a recently-launched subtrope, Wight in a Wedding Dress.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Aug 8th 2019 at 12:42:09 PM

Bumping for crowner votes. The most popular option is 6:3; gonna need some more participation to resolve this.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Berrenta Heating things up from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Heating things up
Aug 10th 2019 at 6:26:04 AM

Indeed.

Looks like we got a lead change; the new winning option is 6:2.

Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
Sep 23rd 2019 at 9:44:47 PM

Bumping this; there's an Image Pickin' thread that will need to be resurrected if/when this thread resolves.

Resize || Upgrades || My dA page
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Sep 27th 2019 at 11:43:57 PM

Ethereal White Dress is at 10:1; getting close to consensus.

Edited by naturalironist on Sep 27th 2019 at 2:44:08 PM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Berrenta MOD Heating things up from Texas Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
Heating things up
Oct 8th 2019 at 10:38:43 AM

Safe to call.

Move done, and IP thread resurrected.

Edited by Berrenta on Oct 8th 2019 at 12:48:15 PM

naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Oct 10th 2019 at 2:25:46 PM

1650.

Should Woman in White be made into a disambig to point people towards Fairytale Wedding Dress, Gold and White Are Divine, Virgin in a White Dress, Light Is Good/Light Is Not Good, Ethereal White Dress, Winter Royal Lady, White Shirt of Death etc.? Or just cut altogether once wicks are cleaned?

Edited by naturalironist on Oct 10th 2019 at 5:26:13 AM

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

Alternative Titles: Woman In White
25th Jun '19 6:25:44 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
Thread voted to rename Woman In White to something more specific to its new definition (Character\'s symbolic connection to death/the spirit world signified by wearing all white).

Total posts: 104
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