Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.
In a Nutshell
We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.Namespace Configuration System
- Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
- There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
- The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
- Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
- Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
- Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
- Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
- Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
- Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
- When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
- When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.
What We Need
What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.For reference:
- The formal namespace list is here: Namespace.
- The complete list of namespaces may be viewed with this tool: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/articlecount.php
- The full list of articles in any particular namespace may be seen here, except that it won't work for Main: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=YMMV.
How This Will Work
If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.
After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.
Rules and Procedures
- The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
- Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
- If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
- If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.
We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.
- Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist. - Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with. - Q: So what should we focus on?
A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content. - Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.
Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If it refers to the character in general, yes, but if it's one of the Disney/ canon, it'd be WesternAnimation.The Many Adventures Of Winnie The Pooh or WesternAnimation.Winnie The Pooh 2011
Blapper of Water
I really don't know where to bring this, but it looks like Eviler Than Thou and a few other people have created NeutralWiki.Legally Exists and the Neutral Wiki/ namespace (link). It gets a bit out of hand when something like Series.Derek gets a new subpage at NeutralWiki.Derek for a character in an unrelated work (for this example, it's from The Good Place).
It isn't listed with the official namespaces, so I doubt this has been brought up before.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, can people just create something like that out of thin air?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Lost in Space
Seriously? Get rid of that garbage.
It sucks that anyone can make a namespace whenever they want, and we hope to get the namespace configuration system fully implemented soon to put a stop to it.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Short-Term Projects herald
I mean, I'm amused by its existence, but I think something like that may need more extensive approval and building before adding it to the wiki proper.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, I don't mind that it exists, but it just feels weird for people to make something like a "Neutral Wiki" with no discussion or anything.
Veteran Editor IV
I also think it's a good idea, but likely needing some expansion and discussion. As for Derek, if it colliding with a series title is really that bad (I don't think it is, maybe it could be noted it's unrelated to the Series.Derek page), use a different name? On second thought, it's related to a work page's JFF (JustForFun.The Good Place), so maybe not.
Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 6th 2020 at 8:44:05 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Blapper of Water
Note that some of the pages, such as NeutralWiki.Janet (another The Good Place character), have Just for Fun pages that redirect to the NeutralWiki/ subpages. That seems kind of backward to me, and it kind of ruins the joke and dilutes the JFF namespace.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Short-Term Projects herald
Side note: Squick.Game Of Thrones is the only page in the Squick/ namespace. Since it's a subpage for a trope that has no on-page examples, I'd like to cut the page and move examples to YMMV subpages for individual episodes, but I also suspect some of the examples can be cut for complaining.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Lost in Space
Agreed. The more of these one- or two-article namespaces we can nuke, the better.
Blapper of Water
Some of these NeutralWiki/ pages have corresponding Darth and Sugar Wiki pages. Should we nuke those as well? For example, NeutralWiki.Welcome To Purgatory has SugarWiki.Welcome To Purgatory (which redirects to SugarWiki.Welcome To Heaven). All of which seem to be the work of tropers like Eviler Than Thou and Unicorndance.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
I don't think we should nuke Neutral Wiki.
Keet cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't think we should nuke it, but a little discussion maybe, before just randomly creating an entirely new section of the wiki?
Blapper of Water
Especially if JFF itself is suitable as a "neutral" version of Darth and Sugar...
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The pages were put on the cutlist. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, though I do think we should hear out ~Unicorndance and ~Eviler Than Thou onto why they started this in the first place, or at least why they made so many pages.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
It started with the idea of the "Ask Janet" pages for Darth Wiki and Sugar Wiki - namely Good Janet and Bad Janet - and then the idea for a Neutral Wiki came for Neutral Janet and Derek.
I just figured that it would make a fascinating new wiki for the Just for Fun section side of the site. While Sugar Wiki is all sweetness, goodness and unflinching optimism and Darth Wiki is all Horror, Darkness and abject pessimism, Neutral Wiki would be on the Neutral side of Character Alignment and make a joke at the idea of things being medium, or "meh", devoid of color or strong feelings. It sounded funny at the time so I figured I throw a line out there and see if it caught on.
Look, if the administrators want to get rid of it, there would be nothing for me to stop them from doing it. Hell, I'll get rid of the Red Links if they wanted me too.
Edited by EvilerThanThou on Feb 7th 2020 at 1:17:06 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't personally think there's anything wrong with it, but this really should've been discussed first, ya know?
Should I start getting rid all of the links before you guys take them down?
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
I think Neutral Wiki is a fine idea and that we shouldn't nuke it. But if we do decide to get rid of it, can we at least move the pages to the regular Just For Fun namespace?
Logic Girl
I didn't make any of the pages or start them. I just got on because they seemed funny.
For every low there is a high.
So who made the Derek page?
I like the idea of NeutralWiki, but since we're trying to maintain namespaces in a more orderly way, much less an entire subwiki, it should have some discussion. I'd create a forum thread just for that.
What should be done with the remaining pages in the namespace?
If everyone wants to keep them, probably move them to the Just for Fun namespace.
There are a few links left for Disney.WinnieThePooh. May I edit a few to "Franchise"?
Edited by shaynaynaynot on Feb 5th 2020 at 6:11:07 AM
Another perfect landing.