Trump and ROCEJ

I've now removed the example I brought up last page.

edited 8th Oct '17 9:49:28 PM by MorningStar1337

Found a "Funny Aneurysm" Moment example in YMMV.Hellsing Ultimate Abridged that mentioned Trump. Remove?

Yes.

Removed examples under Blatant Lies. It's Real Life folder says "This kind of lie has never actually worked in Real Life. Therefore, what follows are all aversions and subversions." If that is not supposed to be self-demonstrating, it's not being follow. Also, we cut BlatantLies.Real Life Politics And War, but adding it to Real Life defeats the purpose.

Any thoughts on making Blatant Lies No Real Life? Or at least enforcing restrictions on real life?

Yeah you could take it to the maintenance thread for being too common in real life.

It's been a few days, so sorry for the double post.

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Bringing this up 'cause it's a bunch of different pages. All of these are in the Real Life pages for these tropes. (Searching for "Trump" will get you to the examples I'm talking about.)

• TrademarkFavoriteFood.Real Life: I think the stuff about Trump et al. is fine. But I'm mentioning here that the entry for Sean Spicer could probably be cut. That's an example of weird eating habits, but not exactly his favorite food... Seems to just be there to point out a weird habit.
• ScrewThisImOuttaHere.Real Life (added August 2017):
  • The first bullet seems to just be trying to insult the president.
  • The second bullet seems to have misinformation concerning the Charlotesville protest / counter-protest.
  • The third bullet doesn't really have anything to do with the trope...
• InsultBackfire.Real Life:
  • The "Taco trucks on every corner" entry needs revision, since it's a political activist who said the quote, not "a surrogate for Trump" (who even would be that).
  • The "kekistan" entry should be moved to a meme page, imo. Also, the information isn't quite accurate. The meme started because Clinton and — more importantly — the Anti-Defamation League categorized the Pepe the Frog meme as a hate symbol. It wasn't primarily Hillary's campaign that contributed to that clustertruck.
  • The Vanity Fair example doesn't have much context. I'm not familiar enough with this example to expand on it, though.
• EnemyMine.Real Life: I'm not sure if this one is fine. Ultimately, it's about Ted Cruz. If it is fine, then I think it could be put into one bullet.
• ThirdPersonPerson.Real Life (added October 2016): This seems inaccurate in a "take our word for it" kind of way. Also, aren't most of his businesses named after him? So if he talks about the "Trump Tower," that isn't him talking about himself in the third person. At the very least, this could use context.
• RedOniBlueOni.Real Life: This page might have a bigger problem than just ROCEJ-breaking. But in the Trump or Clinton related entries, the first is a ZCE and the third has parabombing that could probably be removed. The second doesn't seem to be a pair (not to mention the other problems on this page).
• HoistByHisOwnPetard.Real Life: Misuse. The reason for the firing, as described in the example, is just speculation. Moreover, what was the defeat? The issue is, to my knowledge, still ongoing.
  • The two sub-bullets seem to be "disses" rather than "defeats." I'd say they can be cut, but wdyt

I think these are fine (or I edited them a long time ago and am just including them here to be complete):

• SmallReferencePools.Real Life
• PunctuatedForEmphasis.Real Life
• PrecisionFStrike.Real Life
• ItWillNeverCatchOn.Real Life: This one was later modified, but I think it's fine. Just including this here to be complete.
• CatchPhrase.Real Life
• CassandraTruth.Real Life
• NamesTheSame.Real Life N To Z

edited 25th Oct '17 6:22:38 PM by WaterBlap

Didn't we cut the James Comey example two months ago? I know I brought it up, and Another Duck cleaned up the Hoist by His Own Petard page.

I also fail to see what the example about Trump Jr. criticizing Kimmel for criticizing Harvey Weinstein has to do with this trope.

Wow, I totally forgot that I removed the Comey example on 22 August 2017. It was re-added by Scoutstr295 on 19 September 2017. That troper also added the entry about Donald Trump Jr. and Weinstein. I'll remove the Trump Jr. example for not being this trope, but the other example is already bordering on edit warring if it isn't already.

I suspended that user. There's evidence to suggest that they might be a sock of nervmeister.

I've asked for the aforementioned examples on HoistByHisOwnPetard.Real Life to be removed over on the locked pages thread. Just letting y'all know.

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I have a suggested edit for a page that doesn't concern a politician but does concern a public figure, Harvey Weinstein. This is for the page The Weinstein Company. I'm suggesting this rather than just making it because this concerns the recent news about Weinstein, and this seems like the most appropriate place in the forums to ask, since it seems like either a ROCEJ issue or nearly one.

I'm suggesting the following paragraph be changed from this...:

I tried to remove some of the more colorful or flavorful wording (e.g. "violent rape" kind of implies that rape isn't violent so I think we could just say "rape"). The phrasing of "it's suspected" makes me think that the person who added that didn't look it up. I tried to word it in such a way as to not imply it's recent-ness (so to speak), but couldn't really come up with anything.

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Update on that above list: there's also HumiliationConga.Real Life. That page used to be way worse, but now it looks like it just has one example with Clinton or Trump. Really, the example is about Martin Shkreli, and it might be a matter of just general cleaning up the page. wdyt

edited 31st Oct '17 7:01:41 AM by WaterBlap

New Supergirl Take That! examples (the pages in question have non-trump related TT examples) appeared.

From Season 3, Episode 1:

• A few are made at Donald Trump, with it being implied that he's the unnamed Speaker of the House who Cat states says a lot of crazy things that nobody should believe. In particular, she dismisses the Speaker's claim that The President put listening devices in his microwave, which was a real-life conspiracy theory floated by Kellyanne Conway.

I think the bottom half of the example might be salvaged, but I want to know if Conway's theory is linked to Trump to the point where leaving it in would still violate ROCEJ.

Last Night's ep (the 5th one of the season) however has this:

• A crowd angrily shouts "Lock Her Up!" in reference to Lena, who Edge has framed for causing lead poisoning in children without any definitive proof. On the campaign trail, Donald Trump's supporters would often chant the same thing in reference to Hillary Clinton.

I want to ask if that should be removed or not?

Update: found a non-Take That! example in the character sheet (Morgan Edge's section of the villains page to be specific):

• No Celebrities Were Harmed: Being an unpleasant real estate developer, who's sexist acts very petulant and vindictive if he doesn't get his way, and not as smart as he thinks he is makes him very similar to Donald Trump.

I'd like to ask what to do with this example as well as the TT examples.

edited 7th Nov '17 7:27:03 PM by MorningStar1337

So, the Weinstein thing has expanded to include the line "Harvey himself would eventually become the poster child of the Great Hollywood Sex Scandal of 2017, which started with his fall from grace and would eventually engulf several others in Hollywood within a month."

Anybody have a response to my suggested edits to the page or the recent addition?

on Harsher in Hindsight.Film

• In a similar vein, Spacey's then-current tv show House Of Cards, where he played a fictional US president, was cancelled amidst the allegations. Given the various accusations of sexual misconduct against the current US President Donald Trump, more than one person on social media has pointed out that a fictional president has faced harsher consequences for harassment than the real one.

Since that's Hilarious in Hindsight, yes cut it.

On Nepotism, johnnyfog (someone who was banned in August 2015 for arbitrarily changing quotes), changed the quotation to be a Take That! against Trump. This was in June 2015. The quote before the change was...

I don't think there's anything wrong with the old quote. Is it fine to change it back?

No argument here. I like that quote better just on humor grounds.

The Real Life: Politics section on the Springtime for Hitler page contains a section about how many people believe (or once believed) Donald Trump was a either a joke candidate trying to promote his reality show or a Democratic plant intended to ensure a victory for Hillary Clinton.

Now, I know that was a popular speculation, but I'm not sure if we need that kind of speculation on this wiki.

In the case of that entry, it's other people speculating, not the wiki, and cites are provided.

That said, though, I'm not sure that either of the sub-bullets need to remain, and if they do there needs to be fixing of the Example Indentation issue.

Remember that tropers might be "troping by proxy." For example, that second subbullet comes out of nowhere and isn't related to the speculation in the head bullet. Moreover, it's saying this person "confirmed" something, but the only thing you could take out from that quote is that he "confirmed" his own surprise. It's a troper saying that they were surprised, but they're saying it by quoting someone else. Both subbullets could just be cut, imo.

I'm not completely convinced one way or the other for the head bullet, though. The entry, given the trope it's for, is saying that Trump tried to lose the election. If that is the speculation, then I would think the appropriate source to link to would concern the tactics of Trump's campaign, not a celebrity's opinions on said campaign. It's also inherently a meta Take That! given the other head bullet claiming that these are "joke candidates."

I missed the "joke party/candidate" thing, actually.

Disregard my previous, then. Cut the whole thing, along with the two entries below it regarding UK politicians for the same reason (speculation). Maybe more, but I'm off to bed soon and that's all that jumps out at first glance.

I cut Trump's entry for the "joke politicians" example, but should we cut literally that entire example and all its sub-bullets? I'm not sure where we were heading for this particular example.

Also, I found a HIH and FAM entry for Trump on the page so I nuked it on sight.

Trivia.House Of Cards US

• Unintentional Period Piece: The presidency of Donald Trump caused many accusations that the show suddenly seemed completely irrelevant, with its depiction of an overtly evil president suddenly seeming downright quaint next to the real thing.

Looks like misuse of Unintentional Period Piece.

Hey, that's a violation of the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement, and it looks like misplaced YMMV. I say strip it or move it.

edited 30th Nov '17 4:13:05 PM by jameygamer

From End of an Age:

• Periodically, and especially from 2000 onwards, commentators within and abroad say that this is approaching for the United States. And that is all we are going to say about that.

I think this trope requires it to have actually happened, yes?

• The Western liberal democratic consensus that seemed rock-solid after the Soviet Union broke up has taken a battering in The New '10s from many different directions. Chief among them:
  • The Greek financial crisis, the refugee crisis, the 2015 Paris attacks and the Brexit referendum seem to be putting an end to the EU's dream of a unified Europe.
  • On top of that, the Global Financial Crisis, a.k.a. the 'Great Recession', of 2008 onwards could be heralding the beginning of the end of the neo-liberal financial sector dominance that was spearheaded by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan. What sets the GFC apart from previous recessions is that large financial institutions that managed to survive The Great Depression of the 1930s and subsequent recessions, and heavily benefited from deregulation in the 1980s, were at the heart of the crisis. In fact, David Smick of the Washington Post wrote in 2012 that the "globalization model of the past 30 years is cracking up. And there appears to be no new model to replace it."
  • Since then, the neo-liberal economic order has come under further pressure from the emergence of populist political figures making appeals to those hit hardest by the Great Recession, such as Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders in America, and Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn in Britain (which as earlier mentioned voted to leave the EU).
  • The re-emergence of political strongmen in the early 21st Century such as Donald Trump in America, Vladimir Putin in Russia, Recep Tayip Erdogan in Turkey, and various populist nationalist leaders in Europe, is believed to have dealt a blow to the liberal democracy of the post-Cold War period as described by Francis Fukuyama in "The End of History". Hostility towards international treaty-based economies, disdain towards migrants, and a desire to return to isolationism may spell an end to globalized communities. Fukuyama himself has revisited the topic with a noticeably gloomier outlook from his End of History thesis.
  • Some say the 2016 election was also the end of moderate conservatism, as the GOP moved further to the right and started openly embracing the nationalistic rhetoric of the alt-right, which led to more traditional Republicans performing badly in elections.

Is it to soon to say this is the case or not?

edited 11th Dec '17 1:00:57 AM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

Anything that hasn't happened yet would just be speculation. I think it can be cut on that alone.

Also those Weasel Words of "some say" don't help...

Also, several of those examples seem too soon or too vague...

edited 11th Dec '17 5:05:51 AM by WaterBlap