Misused: Weird Moon

"anytime the moon doesn't act like it does in Real Life."

Which includes the Moon being out of phase, which is why we don't need a separate trope.

I simply think we should change the name Weird Moon into Artistic License Moon or something.

And more importantly, make clear how moons are depicted wrong. Is it its size, or the shape of the crescent moon, or having unnatural phase, or even unnatural shapes? And maybe some things that I missed?

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@ Gallium: if "a moon having a weird phase" is common enough, it can be a subtrope to Weird Moon. That trope already has some subtropes, so why not?

Thing is, moon phases are something that's hardly observable in fiction, unless shown in detail... Because of Plot Time and all that.

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Most of the examples do say how the moon is weird. However, because they're all Weird Moon, we don't have trope pages for them even though we have more then enough examples for pages.

edited 5th Sep '14 9:24:46 AM by ObsidianFire

Crowner created: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/crowner.php/SingleProposition/WeirdMoon?open=all#m4x3qikq

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Is that crowner about all moon tropes, or the ones where it's weird one way or another? Because stuff like Moon Rabbit, Vulcan Has No Moon, or That's No Moon aren't actually about moons more than tangentally.

All supertropes include all examples of all subtropes belonging to said supertrope by definition. Saying that a supertrope covers a subtrope is redundant and is in itself not an argument for a merge.

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Dat crowner is awkward. Weird Moon is about wrong/nonstandard depiction of a moon, NOT moon tropes in general (Index on the Moon is there for a reason).

edited 5th Sep '14 6:53:49 PM by DAN004

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Agreed...the wording of the crowner needs work, and I'm not going to hook it until it gets squared up.

@Duck: The tangential relationship is still having the moon act different from reality. Whether it be life-bearing, absent, or constructed; they're different from our reality. I never said anything about merging pages, so I don't understand your objections.

@Dan004: Tropes are standard portrayals of a device. What is a standard portrayal of the moon is not often how the moon works in Real Life. Index on the Moon is an index-only page: it hasn't attracted any fictional portrayals of the moon as examples. Weird Moon has.

@Willbyr: I don't understand what is awkward about the crowner, and there's already votes on it, so a new crowner needs to be made by someone who has a better idea what other people are thinking, because I seem to be operating sideways from consensus, here.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Those statements are unrelated to each other. That one wasn't directed your way, but as a response to that argument being raised elsewhere.

I voted down on that crowner because I'm not voting up something if I see it possible that it's not interpreted the way I want to vote. If the tropes I listed would be included I definitely vote against it.

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Okay.

Then what's the list of tropes that does fall under your opinion, because out of the three, the only one that isn't already duplicated on Weird Moon is the reference to Japanese mythology.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Weird Moon doesn't cover That's No Moon and Vulcan Has No Moon unless the examples specifically involve a moon, which they don't have.

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I said the pages has already collected examples of those tropes. Why? Probably because the earth's sky has a moon, so the night sky seems incomplete without one, and our moon is not artificially constructed. Whatever the reason, both of those tropes are being used as examples on Weird Moon.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Neither is about moons specifically, and as such, they're not subtropes.

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If they're not about moons specifically, does that mean they don't belong on Index on the Moon? Because that index is for tropes about moons, so....

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

An index and a supertrope are not the same things. Any example of a subtrope is explicitly covered by the supertrope. If there is an example of a subtrope that doesn't fit the supertrope, it's either not an example of the subtrope, or the subtrope is not a subtrope of that supertrope. On the other hand, an index can include related tropes where examples may fit into the theme of the index, but all examples of the tropes don't need to.

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The definition of Weird Moon makes it a supertrope for anytime the moon is not portrayed as it is on earth. So I'd think That's No Moon and Vulcan Has No Moon would be included. The examples under Weird Moon certainly think they are.

Having overlapping examples doesn't mean supertrope, though.

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Guess it's just coming down to a Lumper Vs Splitter debate then.

In this case, overlapping examples means a need to duplicate every instance of moons onto Weird Moon.

Duck, I've asked before; what's the list of tropes that does fall under Weird Moon in your opinion?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Artsy Moon, Moon Out Of Phase, and Cheesy Moon. You could probably make a case for Large Moon being its own trope, but that would likely fall under Artsy Moon, depending on exact definition. Which might make it a subtrope of a subtrope of Weird Moon.

Several moon-named tropes aren't about an actual moon, but about moon-like objects, like Deface of the Moon (where Mount Rushmore even qualifies for its own subtrope) and Vulcan Has No Moon, and others don't actually require the moon to be weird (even if it's common), like Total Eclipse of the Plot and Full Moon Silhouette.

edited 10th Sep '14 8:07:51 AM by AnotherDuck

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Going by WeirdMoon's own definition, Total Eclipse of the Plot and Lunacy are definitely moon tropes.

Personally, I think Total Eclipse of the Plot is nearly always a subtrope of Moon Out Of Phase as eclipses never line up with the other phases shown anyway. The other part of it is that it's always a total eclipse, never a partial one...

Lunacy by it's own definition has everything to do with the moon as the moon is what causes the craziness in the first place.

Clock is set.

It seems we're stuck on actual discussion; would voting on whether individual tropes fall under Weird Moon make sense?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Might be a good way to go. 'Cause currently this is looking like a Lumper Vs Splitter debate to me.