The Scrappy Cleanup

@Memers: For one to be The Scrappy and Hate Sink, it's not just taking their intended unliability too far (a Hate Sink is meant to have zero likability), they must be hated for reasons different than the intended, see X-Pac Heat.

@MsCC93: If they're Strawman Has a Point, isn't it a strike against scrappydom since they're unintentionally likable?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 3rd 2018 at 12:31:07 PM

A Straw Man character is pretty much always a type of Hate Sink. If not, they're probably more of a sympathetic character given a straw argument for the purpose of the plot, not unlikely to be an Idiot Ball.

Check out my fanfiction!

The scrappy entry for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull could use some revision. Mutt Williams is not a very well liked character but the entry only says that he is disliked because he is played by Shia La Beouf. The second bullet entry claims that all the new characters are hated by the fanbase just because they were present in the movie.

I think the reason why Mutt Williams is disliked is because of his douchebag attitude and having too much screentime. Plus the twist involving him being Indy's son was very unpopular.

I don't know if it's appropriate to list the actor as being a reason why this characters is hated

I would count that as complaining about actors you don't like, which we don't do.

Check out my fanfiction!

Weird contradictory entry for The Fairly OddParents!. On the YMMV page, this is listed under Base-Breaking Character:

• Chloe Carmichael. A large portion of the fandom find her as a Little Miss Perfect who makes Timmy look like even more of a loser by comparison, and who Timmy has to share his fairies with due to a "fairy shortage" despite her not meeting the requirement of being miserable (especially when compared to Chester^note Lives in poverty in a trailer with his dad, who has to wear a bag on his head because he's a disgraced and notoriously awful former baseball player or Tootie^note Lives under the same roof as Vicky, no further explanation needed other than to say that "Birthday Wish" confirms that she's at least twice as miserable as Timmy is), and she also hated for her loudness and her role in every episode she appeared. On the other hand, there are also some fans who like that Chloe is a positive female character, since most of the other female characters are either Alpha Bitches (Trixie), irredeemable Jerkasses (Miss Doombringer and Vicky), borderline-criminal stalkers (Tootie), or were one-off characters (Molly and Missy), and that she's much less of a Sue in her next appearances. There's even few fans who hope Chloe will become Timmy's new love interest and ship her with him, though this is subject to whether or not the live-action films are canon.

But this is listed on the Western Animation The Scrappy page.

• Chloe has been gaining detractors ever since her introduction in the season 10 premiere, not helped by many fans officially marking her appearance as the moment where the show became a Franchise Zombie, nor the fact that she has many of the same problems as Sparky, listed above.

Should one be burned?

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

From Xenogears:

• Dan. The Dark Id had a field day with mocking him.
• Chu-Chu

Edited by MasterJoseph on Jul 5th 2018 at 11:55:45 AM

IPP Wick Check created.

Remove both of those for being Zero Context Examples.

The Base-Breaking Character entry goes into good detail about why both her fans and haters feel the way they do. Meanwhile, Chloe's entry on The Scrappy doesn't explain anything aside from a positional comparative with another example. While I'm not a member of this fandom, I'm inclined to keep Chloe as a Base-Breaking Character just because that entry isn't a Zero-Context Example.

Edited by Zuxtron on Jul 6th 2018 at 9:59:46 AM

The series tries multiple times to pull a Strawman Has a Point with her Education Nazi thing and each time it falls so flat on its face that it’s like an editor mandated ‘this must be here’ thing. Even though it flies so far in front of what the series is about and actively hinders the story each and every time.

I believe Admiral Holdo from The Last Jedi could qualify as a scrappy, here is my reasoning:

---

• Admiral Holdo has been largely criticized for keeping Poe Dameron and the others in the dark about her plan. Not only did this hurt the Resistance morale due to their desperate situation, but it also unintentionally led to heavy losses within the Resistance. While the film does try to portray her sympathetically near the end by briefly showing her bonding with Leia and redeeming herself even more with her Heroic Sacrifice. The story behind the sacrifice feels hollow because it could have been avoided if she was more open to Poe.

Tell me what you think of this. I also understand that some fans have accused Holdo as a way of adding a SJW agenda. But I prefer to leave that out because of the potential Flame Bait.

Edited by SithPanda16 on Jul 8th 2018 at 4:43:39 AM

We have agreed to disqualified her. Too many defenders.

Where there's life, there's hope.

Found this on Now and Then, Here and There: "The Scrappy: Shu is this to some viewers, mostly due to his near-boundless energy and optimism in such a horrible setting (see Shoot The Shaggy Dog below) and thinking that mere chin-up platitudes are enough to ease the pain of rape. Some were also annoyed by him prioritizing Lala-ru's well-being over Sara. You probably won't hear as many issues about Hamdo being in this category, for the reasons covered under Complete Monster."

Is the hate insufficient?

IPP Wick Check created.

I would like to know why some people defend Holdo. I've been trying to write an entry for her as a Base-Breaking Character. Trying to justify her reasonings as to why she kept her allies in the dark could come across as speculation. I know her Heroic Sacrifice could've made up for her poor leadership, but I would like to see if their is any other reasons as to why people defend her.

I should point out that Base-Breaking Character requires that there be little to no middle ground between liking and hating the character. If you can't prove that there isn't a sizable amount of the fanbase that don't particularly hate or like her, she's not a Base-Breaking Character.

The pithiest answer is a question: why are you phrasing this so as to cast the burden of proof on the side that didn't commit mutiny?

You cant find many people who actually will defend her aside from the blind fanboys who are convinced that Star Wars can do nothing wrong but cant even put up an adequate defense as to why.

She is literally a character out of nowhere with no background that just causes stupid unnecessary drama for literally no reason other than to create easily avoided drama. You would think the character was created to be a Temporary Scrappy after they unceremoniously killed the Ensemble Dark Horse Admiral Ackbar without even a word said but she is treated as 100% right and shilled to no end. Then pointlessly sacrifices herself while the movie is preaching 'don't sacrifice yourself unnecessarily'.

She is 100% a Replacement Scrappy at minimum.

Edited by Memers on Jul 9th 2018 at 1:48:46 AM

That's pretty much... pure fiction. I have no interest in actually debating the merits of the character but it's completely untrue to say that no one sides with her (as your own attempt to deny their legitimacy kinda shows).

That is not what I said...

While it's true that the Star Wars fan base is heavily polarized over almost every aspect of The Last Jedi, it is factually untrue to say that Holdo is held in near universal dislike, and therefore The Scrappy is not a valid trope. Indeed, this determination to tar the film with every negative trope one can find, as one would fling feces at a wall, smacks of desperation. Please cut it out.

Edit: Holding something in universal praise and not permitting any criticism is equally as wrong as flinging negativity like an angry chimpanzee. It is possible, as terrifying as this sounds to some, to enjoy a work of fiction while still acknowledging its problems.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 9th 2018 at 9:27:46 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

While I slightly disagree with this. I can understand why Holdo might be disqualified. I am unsure whether or not I should put her in Base-Breaking Character due to the potential Flame Bait that can arise since she has been accused by some of being SJW propaganda.

"accused by some of being SJW propaganda."

That shit can be tossed out at the door. We are not going to allow "manosphere" toxicity on our wiki in any form whatsoever. Any subjective trope or audience reaction example that talks about "SJWs" in a pejorative sense should be deleted on sight and whoever added it should be reported.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 9th 2018 at 12:02:42 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

@Master Joseph: The Now and Then, Here and There example doesn't seem like an example. "X is this to some viewers" is a common warning flag that it's not an example. It also refers to a different trope entry, which you should never do.

Check out my fanfiction!

Its something that is quite a bit of a problem with actually sorting through the complaints, its something the fanboys and seemingly Disney have used to write off all complaints for the movie and not actually address the valid criticisms.

Edited by Memers on Jul 9th 2018 at 10:12:41 AM

They're waving away complaints as "SJW propaganda", or "anti-SJW propaganda"? Either way, it's not something that we should be taking on at TV Tropes, as it's pure Flame Bait. Also, I find that entire claim highly dubious, as the inclusion of a powerful female character is not a thing that should cause any argument. That it does is just sad. It's off-topic as well.

Now, there is a valid complaint buried in all of this: that Holdo is introduced from scratch to take over in Leia's absence in lieu of some other established character, and then sacrifices herself in the same film, making it less meaningful to the audience. In the same film, the entire bridge crew of the Raddus, including several better-known characters, gets blown away without so much as a whimper. Whether you appreciate all of this or not depends on whether you enjoy the subversion of expectations that it creates, and it is definitely the sort of thing that can create a Broken Base.

Holdo's gender, however, is strikingly irrelevant unless you have a pre-existing bias about female characters.

Edited by Fighteer on Jul 9th 2018 at 2:36:58 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Holdo is introduced from scratch to take over in Leia's absence in lieu of some other established character, and then sacrifices herself in the same film, making it less meaningful to the audience.

It has a whiff of Disposable Woman when framed like that...

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman