Repair? Rewrite? Rename? Remove?:: Furo Scene

This trope is a mess. Let's start with the first paragraph of text.

"A furo is a Japanese bathing tub. Similar to the Western hot tub, it is not used for washing but for soaking and relaxing. Most homes in Japan, and even some apartments, have one; they are usually big enough for two or more persons to bathe together."

Seems to me furo is just the japanese word for bath tub and that they might be slightly larger in general in Japan. Western people certainly do use their bath tub to relax and occasionally bathe together with someone else on occation. Seems more like a personal preference than a cultural one.

Next comes a paragraph discussing other things than furo. This is irrelevant.

Then to make it really vague there is a discussion on how a furo scene can be used to bring forth other tropes.

So, what can be done? Rename to bath tub scene for clarity perhaps? As it is right now the trope seems to include just about any scene in a bath tub.

Yup, definitely needs a rewrite. This seems to be a valid trope though, at least in Japanese media, as evidenced by the fact that an anime bath scene wiki exists.

Truthfully I don't see much of a problem, and I love reading this trope, despite the redundancy and unnecessary info. But who is willing to rewrite this is the question.

The entire second paragraph an be trimmed down to one or two sentences.

As for the rest of it, the description doesn't really tell me what the trope is. And the examples just list scenes with a furo. If this is purely Fanservice, then the description needs to emphasize it.

Just because someone has done a wiki on it doesn't mean that it is a good trope for this page.

To clarify a bit. The trope is too narrow in that it is so focused on Japan. It is also too wide in that it can include any scene with a bath tub.

edited 5th Nov '11 1:32:26 PM by mnbv

Cut. Or move to useful notes without examples.

People soak in tubs. People sit in chairs. The question is, what does the work do with that?

Is is covered in candles for a horror scene? Do two characters in the tub bond? Or do they point out each other's sexual features? Does the character soak after trauma? Does someone accidentally see them? Or does the character just show off their legs for fanservice? These are all tropes.

But the tub's country of origin does not make a trope.

I agree with the above posters - it's equally possible for someone to create a wiki listing anime scenes where people sat on chairs. The fact that this would be People Sit On Chairs in Japan! does not mean that it stops being, well, People Sit On Chairs. How is People Take Baths in Japan! any different?

I think this page is salvageable if given more of a focus (for instance, fanservice) then it has now. But the current definition does not appear to be, in any way, shape, or form, a trope.

edited 5th Nov '11 2:59:35 PM by nrjxll

Here is a Sandbox for the page: Furo Scene.

I went ahead and chopped off most of the second paragraph, and merged what was left with the first. Hopefully that will give us a place to start.

I think it's distinct enough from Hot Springs Episode to be it's own trope. But we need to give it a definition other than "scene with a Furo."

edited 5th Nov '11 5:42:01 PM by pokedude10

If the current definition does not make it a trope, then why should we bother at all with trying to save it?

Also let's not forget that there is no good reason for the japanese name so what we're talking about here is changing both name and definition.

edited 5th Nov '11 6:10:29 PM by mnbv

As currently written it leaves much to be desired.

However, I think there are several reasons for a Japanese based trope here because of the cultural differences.

Bathing is treated differently in Japan.

1: It's tied up with guest right and traditional courtesies.

For example,a very typical scenario in Japanese media is for someone to become soaked in the rain or get dirtied up and then for the person they are visiting to offer them a bath. It signals the person offering the bath has recognized the bather as a guest and is being a proper host. Additionally the Japanese reuse the bath water so offering the first use of the bath demonstrates respect and proper behavior towards a guest.

I guess I see this sometimes in Western media (though not as often as in Japanese media) but in the West it's all about getting the clothes off the girl and making her vulnerable. There's that going on in Japanese media too, but there are all these traditional elements as well. For example it can be used to identify a female character as a Yamato Nadeshiko type.

2: Family Bathing (which probably ought to be it's own trope).

The Japanese are more likely to bathe together the Westerners. For example, fathers bathe with their young daughters (up to around age ten). Older brothers with their little sisters. Older sisters with their younger brothers. Now in the Western world this isn't unheard of for same gender- usually used to demonstrate a mother-daughter bond, but I seriously doubt Western media would depict an older man adopting a girl child and then hopping in the bath with her (as I've seen several Japanese media do).

Additionally you'll occasionally see women (more often then men, probably for fanservice reasons) bathe together.

Really, how often do Western people do this?

I think bathing together in the West and in Japan have different meanings. Sure it can be used to denote a couple or love interest, but in Japan it's often used to signal friendship without any sexual overtones.

Do Western women who are friends typically hop into the bath with each other and wash each others backs? Maybe I'm locked out of the loop being a man, but I've never heard of that.

3: Communal Bathing (which probably ought to be it's own trope).

The Japanese have public bath houses. People go there and take a bath with strangers. Naked. I know there are some parts of the West that still have this, but not many.

This isn't to say the current trope description is acceptable. Just that I think there is probably room for a Japanese subtrope of the more general "Bathing Scene" trope.

Interesting points. Those are tropes. (Cultural tropes, and possible media tropes too.)

Furo Scene is still not a trope.

Sackett, what you're talking about is fine for a Useful notes page on bathing in Japan if you want to write one. Or you could try to launch one or several of them as tropes. If you did though, Furo Scene would not be a very good name.

edited 5th Nov '11 7:12:54 PM by mnbv

A Furo Scene is a very different thing than just a Shower Scene or Bathtub Scene and such (Culturally physically and stereotypically) , and should stay on it's own, rewrite yes though.

A furo scene happens in order

• sitting down washing, using wash pans and such, this is where the Fanservice is... If it is a guy there is a good chance of a girl coming in unannounced wanting to wash his back the stereotype is a Little sister but a Childhood Friend or someone trying to score points might try it. (they can show up in a School Swimsuit for nonrevealing but Fetishy type thing too.)It usually leads to Lutz. Or the other common thing is two girls which might end up in skinship or an actual important conversation.
• then the actual relaxing... Big decrease in Fanservice here depending on how opaque the water is or how much Censor Steam. (Hidamari Sketch ended every episode here.) as the people are suppose to be clean before entering water is not drained and shared with everyone taking one that night (sometimes leading to weird ideas). Not uncommon for 2 girls to attempt to fit or for one to be washing and one to be already in the tub for important convo.
• The bathhouse which is everything above but in groups usually leading to fights or "Skinship" and such... Entire episodes or parts of episodes get based on this place. But it is not a Hot Springs Episode as it is not a Hot Springs and distinct physical and social differences. (in a public pool vs water park way.)

edited 5th Nov '11 7:21:09 PM by Raso

First of all, stop talking about bathhouses. That is A) not what wer'e talking about here and B) something the Romans did.

Raso, we already have Bathtub Bonding for much of what you describe and it is not uniquely japanese as you can see from the examples.

edited 5th Nov '11 7:23:15 PM by mnbv

Speaking of Roman bathhouses, I don't suppose that could be a trope? I'm always looking for something to add to "my" article on a certain Roman historical fiction series, and seeing how half the stuff here is about grading different types of aliens and magical powers and the like, finding stuff for Real Life historical settings can be a pain.

I'm not sure if Roman bathhouses on their own would be a trope - it sounds more like Useful Notes to me - but that's a question for Lost And Found.

Incidentally, a "Japanese Bathing Culture" useful notes page might be the best thing to do with this trope as it stands now.

edited 5th Nov '11 8:01:57 PM by nrjxll

It's related can be used if they go in the tub ... the action almost always happens outside in the washing phase for more Fanservice.

Usage of this type of bathroom, how it's used and tropes contained in it are different than just a Bathtub and such it is a cultural thing. As well a this is a preexisting term for these types of scenes in Anime, Visual Novels and especially hentai. It's not a Useful Notes its a Cultural Trope.

edited 5th Nov '11 8:59:36 PM by Raso

How is this any more questionable as a trope than Shower Scene?

Exactly. The description needs help, but the solution to that is not to cut it outright.

Shower Scene has a considerably better description, though. It's not just People Take Showers, whereas this seems to be pretty much People Take Baths in Japan!. I never said it wasn't salvageable, but it's not a trope as it stands now.

Shower Scene is actually more specific than it sounds. It's a Fanservice shower.

edited 5th Nov '11 9:39:44 PM by mnbv

Aside from fatsos and old guys when is a Shower Scene not Fanservice?

As in a scene where they are in a shower.

edited 5th Nov '11 10:49:20 PM by Raso

Lots of situations. A character mistakenly walks into another in the shower, and it's played for laughs. A character washes a salad in the shower, again for laughs. A character sits in the shower and cries. A character MASTURBATES in the shower - but it's not played for fanservice. A couple have SEX in the shower - but it's not played for fanservice.

But yeah, to clarify its definition, we should really call Shower Scene "Sexy Shower."

Regardless of its name, though, that's the point. Shower Scene is a trope because it focuses on shower scenes shown for Fanservice. If the trope was literally just about any shower scene, then it would have the same problem as this one. Likewise, if we rewrote this as "bathing scenes played for Fanservice", it would be all right. But right now, it's not.

Speaking of Romans, there is a manga set in Roman Republic-era focused on bath houses, can't remember the name though.