Isn't this subjective?: Dying Moment Of Awesome

If not, perhaps someone could justify it being objective?

It's trying to set itself up as the supertrope to Heroic Sacrifice.

Yeah, well, I don't think it's succeeded. :)

Almost a month later, and it's still not objective. :)

Perhaps we should just get rid of the examples and make it an index. The examples probably all fit into one or another of the subtropes anyway.

It's subjective by its very definition. It says it Crowning Moment Of Awesome only right before dying. And I quote the page I linked, "Note that awesome moments are subjective."

I think the only reason it isn't on the Sugar Wiki with the rest of the Moments Of Awesome is that it has to do with death, and death isn't happy.

edited 19th Apr '11 4:23:34 AM by BigT

Not necessarily: it could also be described as "going out with a blaze of glory," or even "going down fighting as hard as you can as dramatically as the media allows," in which case it would best be used as an objective supertrope for other tropes which tie together the concept.

Then the description will need to be rewritten, and the examples closely looked at. Right now, I don't see how the trope as currently defined is objective.

Hmm, I've been thinking... Perhaps it should be redefined to mean closer to what was suggested ? But is it any more objective than what it means now?

Might it just be easier to just mark it as subjective and be done with it?

Leaper,

I like the idea of keeping Dying Moment of Awesome's supertrope status and making it more objective, especially since many of its SubTropes are not subjective themselves. However, if we want to pursue that goal, I think it is going to be necessary to take out the mention of Crowning Moment Of Awesome in the trope's description and probably rename the trope itself in order to differentiate it from the subjective Crowning Moment Of Awesome trope.

I am not totally sure about that though so I am interested in hearing what other people have to say about this.

edited 2nd May '11 4:23:21 PM by LouieW

I think that doing such a thing is an easy task, if you ask me. How about, instead of 'Dying Moment Of Awesome', we call it 'In A Blaze Of Glory'? Going out in a blaze of glory can be related to any way in which a character refuses to die a normal death and instead opts for going out showing defiance to the end, or in the most dramatic way possible, or both. AND, while it can be a Crowning Moment Of Awesome, it is not necessarily such, so the subjectivity is out of the picture.

My suggestion for how the trope would be after this remodeling. Keep in mind that I also removed the two subjective tropes being referenced (Alas, Poor Villain and Alas, Poor Scrappy) to further remove subjectivity from it.

To put it simply, when a character goes out, not with a whimper, but a bang. A big one at that. Though the plot may say that they have to die, the writer honors the character enough to not take them down like a nameless mook, but instead make their death something to be proud of. They don't run, they don't cry. They die standing, and they go down swinging.

The polar opposite of Dropped a Bridge on Him, In A Blaze Of Glory is a supertrope for:

• Defiant to the End
• Heel–Face Turn (if Redemption Equals Death)
• Heroic RRoD
• Heroic Sacrifice
  • Jumping on a Grenade, a specific form of the Heroic Sacrifice.
  • Taking the Bullet, another form of the Heroic Sacrifice
• The Last Dance
• Last Stand
• Taking You with Me
• Thanatos Gambit
• You Shall Not Pass!

If done well, this can be a real Tear Jerker, a mind-blowing Crowning Moment Of Awesome, or both. It can be undermined somewhat if the character later gets better, but eh, what'cha gonna do...

Someone may note that it was a Great Way to Go.

As a Death Trope, all spoilers will be unmarked ahead. Beware.

Keep in mind, my goal with this is to make small direct changes that result in big indirect changes. With a just a bit of wording change, things suddenly take a different perspective.

edited 5th Jun '11 6:23:40 AM by Sachiko

This seems a very good suggestion.

That idea seems really similar to Do Not Go Gentle.

It does seem tropable if we can remove the stigma of the very-loaded "Awesome" in the title.

Meaningful Death?

Heroic RRoD is not a subtrope, as it does not require the hero actually dying.

Crowner

Nailed to the thread.

I think that if we were to make this trope objective we would bring it close (maybe too close) to Do Not Go Gentle like Nocturna said. If it stayed a supertrope with Do Not Go Gentle as a sub-trope, that might work. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind moving to the Sugar Wiki with the other 'awesome' moments.

Bumb for votes

Okay, if it does get moved, can we make an objective version, like the writers having a character go out in a blaze of glory?

There's a definite objective core to this idea.

While any one person may not find say, being heavily wounded but choosing to fight to the death taking out dozens of enemies before dying, strictly awesome I would question any reasoning that said that wasn't at least the deliberate intent of the scene by the creators. Whether it works or not for any person is really a separate issue to the objective reality of giving a character a big long death scene where they use their last moments to accomplish something. Be that practical or simply dramatic.

So yeah disconnecting it from the other Moments of Awesome with a different title seems the best route.

edited 22nd Jan '12 2:57:39 PM by gs

So it often overlaps with Heroic Sacrifice and You Shall Not Pass!.

and That's Do Not Go Gentle.

No, that trope is not going out in a blaze of glory. It's simply not taking a fatal situation and just giving in to despair.

They just can overlap.

edited 22nd Jan '12 7:22:10 PM by DragonQuestZ