frequently misused on the wicks: Buxom Is Better

If the whole point is to make things "easier" then I'm still going to have to disagree. If a troper wants to make yet another breast trope that's fine, so long as it's legitimate (which it probably won't). I don't see the point in indulging the wishes of tropers who refuse to use the site properly. IMO, cutting the alt names, renaming the trope, and making the trope description as clear as it can possibly would be the course to take.

edited 21st Feb '11 12:22:44 PM by captainpat

What about creating deliberately as a trivia item? Possibly one that's allowed on character sheets? If it has "NOT A TROPE" written all over it, it might help fight those people who argue "But big breasts are a trope so obviously this thing I wrote is a trope", but by existing it helps take away some of the misuse of other tropes...

That's what we do for the other side of the spectrum with Pettanko.

No examples, 2 actual trope subpages, 1k wicks 5800 inbounds.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:56:01 AM by Raso

That makes sense to me. Pettanko itself doesn't have examples, it just directs to the related tropes (A-Cup Angst, Petite Pride). Parallel to that, you could have Buxom Babe (or whatever) which doesn't have examples but just lists the related tropes (Most Common Superpower, Gag Boobs, etc.).

I'm not really following how that would change anything. Pointing a character has big breasts doesn't seem like a trvia item and just because a trope is meant only on the character sheets hasn't really stopped people from using them in the main page. (to be fair most works don't have a character sheet tab.)

There's not really a fight against tropers who believe that big breasts are tropes. They're wrong, need to learn what a trope is, and that's the end of it. Like I said I don't see any possible need to give in to people who are using the site properly.

Yea but Pettanko spefically says "note that flat-chestedness alone doesn't make one a Pettanko, but rather the associated worries and personality that come with being keenly aware of it, especially compared to girls of more typical sizes around her."

edited 25th Feb '11 12:26:07 PM by captainpat

I don't think readers preferring bigger breasts is really a non-trope. It's just an audience reaction trope. Not all guys like bigger breasts, and not all cultures make such a big deal about them.

Another idea: make the new page a Useful Notes about why some people prefer larger breasts. It's still not a trope, but at least we're not making an exception for just one page. Lock it and leave it example less, and let people link there.

Which would go under Fetish Fuel, Hence I recommended that tropers who simply want to gush about character because of their "nice racks" should take it to the fetish fuel wiki. I'm fine with a Useful Notes page discussing why some people prefer huge breasts but I don't think that's gonna solve the problem. People just want a way to point out "Hey! this character has a nice rack" and that's pretty much it.

Pretty sure that line is a holdover from when the page was split into A-Cup Angst and Pettanko Pride.

Its Fanservice trope not really Fetish Fuel if someone wants to get the point across that someone is mad at other peoples huge breasts in say A-Cup Angst the would most likely refer to the person with them as Buxom Babe or any other funny breast related event trope such as Marshmallow Hell ect the super trope would be the best thing to pothole to get the point across without havin to go into a massive amount of detail. (There are Sugar-free attempts at Marshmallow Hell.)

The page would only be listed on character pages and Pothole used when the context of the entry is about breasts.

edited 26th Feb '11 7:54:04 AM by Raso

Sorry, I'm having trouble parsing what you're getting at. That in line Pettanko reads like it belongs there. It's getting the point across that a character who is a Pettanko is a flat chested character who is aware that she is in fact flated chest and her awareness often manifest itself as Petite Pride or A-Cup Angst.

Now, if a character with A-Cup Angst is jealousness towards a bustier character, that would simply be Buxom Is Better (bigger breasts = more attractiveness/benefits), I would not refer the other character as a Buxom Babe (I know it's an alt name but I can't stand it).

Also Marshmallow Hell has to do with a character suffocating another character with their breasts. There' no specific breasts size or gender for the character doing the suffocating.

edited 26th Feb '11 8:51:51 AM by captainpat

Marshmallow Hell with someone who isn't a Buxom Babe would hurt in other ways. And my point is that someone with A-Cup Angst could be talking about someone with a B Cup (or someone with a Bcup lamenting over her small size vs an FCup) it does not get the point across that they are infact quite large without a picture. Hence IMO the index for potholes and character sheets.

Those might not be the best tropes to compare though.

Anyway the index would get this trope used exactly the way it should be used.

edited 26th Feb '11 9:52:06 AM by Raso

The Haruhi character page uses this format for this trope which would probably be the way it should go.

• Buxom Babe
  • Buxom Is Better (especially according to Haruhi)

edited 27th Feb '11 6:03:44 PM by Raso

Going to bump this because we really need that page IMO.

Well, I'm all for it, it seems like a sensible measure to take.

Still gonna have to disagree because I know that most people are simply gonna stop at Buxom Babe leading us back to situation we have now. I think the reason why most people tend to misuse a lot of the breasts tropes is because they're rarely ever written in a that is clear and to the point.

How about we redefine the scope of Buxom Is Better to include only in-universe examples of characters explicitly claim or show that big breasts automatically make a woman more attractive, or are crucial to a woman's appearance? And maybe for Author Appeal instances?

There could be something of a collective, separate no-examples page for tropes having to do with breast size (as opposed to tropes that apply to every and any kind of breasts such as Wardrobe Malfunction, Side Boob, Under Boob etc.)... Or maybe just tropes about big breasts. I dunno.

Anyhow, IMO linking every big breasted character to a Big Breastedness Trope should be actively discouraged, because PeopleMayHaveBigBreasts. To support this, the most abused breast tropes should be checked to remove on-trope examples, and if needed (WHEN needed, breasts are distracting to many people it would seem), the trope descriptions should be cleaned up to underline the tropes versus the PSO Cs.

edited 2nd Mar '11 3:00:45 PM by peccantis

I think the bulk of the misuse is for drawn characters in all mediums (Comics, Anime, Manga, Video Games, Webcomics). There is a reason why they are drawn the way they are specificly to invoke Fanservice it not always Author Appeal. If just an index for Big Breasted tropes wont work (IMO it should just the fact that the misuse is rather extreme.) What about Drawn Busty? (for live action adaptations to the drawn work it would lead to Big Bra to Fill.) again it would be only for wicks and character pages.

edited 2nd Mar '11 4:30:11 PM by Raso

Physical feature of character are simply not tropeworthy. Maxine Gibson from Batman Beyond, Dr Holiday from Generator Rex, and Balsa from Seirei No Moribito all have large breasts yet none of them are fanservicey characters. Pointing out that a character is drawn with large breasts doesn't tell me anything other than that. There has to be something done with them (Male Gaze, Gag Boobs, Gainaxing ) for it to be a trope.

That's pretty much what I would want minus the Author Appeal part, as that's simply just Author Appeal. The discription of this trope is, IMO, trying to do too much. It reads like a useful note page and a description of a trope cramed to together. This trope should simply be about

characters who are attractive, in-universe, mainly because of their large breasts.

edited 3rd Mar '11 1:04:16 PM by captainpat

I would disagree that art styles used to create people are not tropes. They may simply be something that aesthetically appeals to the artist, but they're definitely a conscious decision by the artist to make it that way. Same as Noodle People.

True, but I think there's a difference between an artstyle and psychical trait. You can least, I think you can,(sorry, I have little knowledge of artstlyles whatsoever) depict a busty woman in Noodle People style (Whatever it's called).

I just don't think large breasts are an intrinsic element to a particular style.

Agree, or disagree, that's fine. I just think we need something that say more than "this character has big breasts".

Noodle People has a large single person in a work section. elaborating a bit if the artist draws someone busty then gives them an outfit that calls attention to that fact in anyway (as opposed to hiding it and never showing it) is no different than Baby Got Back.

yea but Baby Got Back as nothing to do with the size of a character butt, just the attention brought to it.

To be honest I don't think that the whole "Only if they are considered attractive in-universe because of the fact that they are well-endowed" is not going to narrow it down all that much. Because the idea of a fictional story that has a well-endowed woman and that their body is purely irrelevant or not if they are the least bit attractive is very... rare to say the least. Basically if a young woman has remotely large breasts then it will almost inherently be fanservice to a great portion of media. (Unless said woman is fat for having a large stomach, yeah I know its rather offensive but to be fair there are certain tropes like Big Beautiful Woman whom try to counter that.)

Now I know that someone might be thinking "Not all straight men think that a remotely thin woman with large breasts automatically makes you attractive" and I understand that. But the point is that "Only if they are considered attractive in-universe because of this" rule is not going to work that well. If you guys are really against the idea of a trope for well-endowed women than just get rid of this trope page and/or have Buxom Babe be a alternate name for Ms. Fanservice or something like that but a lot of people where treating it as a sub-trope to begin with.

Yes, but a Ms. Fanservice doesn't have to be known her breasts per se.

True not all valid examples of a Ms. Fanservice are buxom but it is a known cause of it, though in retrospection wouldn't the new rule be more of a case of Hello Nurse then?

It's not a new requirement. The disclaimer is just there to emphasize the requirements that were already stated in the description.

I'm not exactly sure why limiting this trope to in-universe, wouldn't it narrow it down most of the misuse (or whatever you wanna call it). The thing that makes this a trope is that the characters breasts have some semblance of relevance to the plot or characterization.

I don't have a problem with tropes for well-endowed characters, but the problem is that they're not really tropes if all they're doing is pointing out that fact.

I dunno, personally I'm fine with anything so long as it's not "hey, this character has big breasts"