Discussion YMMV / TheNostalgiaCritic

It's best to leave it honestly. Yeah he bashed them, but it's been taken off and put back on so many times.

That only makes me think it's more worth the effort to figure this out, to be honest.

If any entry becomes not worth the trouble because of the number of times it's removed/edited, then any group with an agenda can control a thread just by making repeated edits.

I know this is pretty old and the entry's gone anyway, but he never bashed them for supporting the prince? He made fun of the movie for throwing in a single gay character for no reason, and pointed out Fridge Logic in putting a gay man in a list of eligible bachelors. Transcript in question:

NC (vo): We're pro...something. That should distract from the fact that we're (Joe switches to a profile of Sir Laurent Wilson) saying nothing funny.

Hyper Fan Girl (vo): Why did they include a gay guy in there anyway?

There’s a few, there’s his DVD commentaries for the movies (where he also talks about guilt for the drill scene and almost killing himself working), the second top hottest animated women list, the last livestream, several show vlogs but I haven’t watched those in a while and he says a lot about a lot of things...

I know he's talked about certain issues before, but the "Ignorance is Bliss" part seems to imply that he's talked about the major controversy since it happened.

Not really? As it says, he’s apologized for stuff from the past, but clammed up when the actual scandal came

He didn't apologize, for the record. Not as far as I know. He discussed the set breakdowns and that the shoot sucked, but technically I don't think he said he was sorry to anybody else.

Probably not, the skit-heavy videos are the most viewed and engaged with and the white wall ones are far less popular, but there’s plenty of positive on here too.

Yoy know which ine i mean not the one on wall vid the other entry

Yeah I know that's what I meant, skitty/character heavy reviews in general.

He made pedophile jokes, called fourteen year old girls sluts and regrets the review. I think detailing the fuck up is fine.

Unfortunate Implications was discussed before on this page, and firstly the TRS says it's only the main page that needs citations (I don't know why either), and second I tried to limit it to examples with links or what Doug/Malcolm have discussed. Unless some others have slipped by that's all that's there and it's allowed. The others do need some trimming though.

Ah, alright then, that's cool. The other ones, unless someone else wants to raise points, I'll slice them up later today.

Ah, alright then, that's cool. The other ones, unless someone else wants to raise points, I'll slice them up later today.

Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I feel like we need to condense the Unfortunate Implications down a paragraph or two. Some of the points are legitimate but others feel overly sensitive or come way out of left field. I've seen most of the episodes mentioned and only about half the current examples merit inclusion. We should probable just preface the example with "given the critic's sense of humor, everyone will likely find something at some point that offends them" and cover our bases rather than searching out every nit-picky thing.

But it's not "searching for every nitpicky thing", these are the ones with citations, even from in-universe or complaints acknowledged in other videos. Just because you don't feel they're worthy of inclusion, doesn't mean you should delete, this is YMMV.

Shouldn't the last one be rewritten a bit tho? Not saying it isn't worth including but the example was clearly done by someone biased and right or wrong, it's still nonsensical to call it "homophobia".

They call it "casual homophobia". I'm hard-pressed to find any other term fitting.

I'm in the middle. I agree that it's casual homophobia, but the wording is judgmental. It guesses about what Nostalgia Critic feels or thinks.

I'm an advocate of social justice too, so I feel like we can reference the casual homophobia without sounding so bitter.

I'll take out the middle bit, leaving the first part and Doug's confirmation that people had a problem with it.

I'm confused, are you saying the review doesn't exist? Because when I just type 'that guy with the glasses' it's the first review up. Besides, even if it's fallen off now, it still got a truckload of people aware of him.

Ok, sure those are legit reasons to put those back, so feel free to do so. But why can you only cite them for the main page and nowhere else? Why isn't it a site-wide thing?

I'm not totally sure. The TRS thread just said for page only. I guess because YMMV pages aren't as important as a main page getting full of clutter? But thanks, I'll add some more links while I'm at it.

I really don't think it's that bad, natter entries get deleted and compared to some there's not many times you have to tell people off.

Yeah but considering who this guy is...

I would go for Author Tract personally?

Well, it's in regards to his reaction to the fanservice of the transformation sequences. He's not writing his beliefs about it in the thing he is reviewing - the Critic is interpreting this based on the show he watched.

The problem is, the tangent leads to (bizarrely) a discussion about Japan's laws in regard to... a tricky subject, and how messed up it gets. All of which has almost no connection to the show - at most, he seems to be reading too much into a sequence and seeing it out of proportion. In fact, a good ten mintues of the review is devoted to the side discussion, which really adds nothing to the analysis.

Loki editorial with the entire joke being Critic grossed out. Malcolm as a "catman inside of a catwoman", which even he said on twitter was humiliating, Bay a simpering parody of Donnie, Critic getting retconned into manleh, all the sex is only sex when man-on-woman jokes.

And the entry mentions what it was probably trying to do, but with the jokes and straw and self-righteous and not explaining well enough, it came off as incredibly homophobic.

Rob had to make a post on the forums saying how he didn't care that people thought it was pathetic.

Alright, they're fair enough. Guess they just went over my head!

Also, the post regarding the woman who wanted to, and I quote, "to kill him and make a sofa out of his skin". Is that friggin' real?! That might be one of the freakest cases of Fan Dumb I've seen. Ever.

Being that he's a comedian and the concept of giving a literal joystick fellatio is not inherently funny, I'm gonna go with it was Fan Disservice, and should be left off of Squick.

Should I add it again? When I previously added it to Squick it was taken off.

Please do

He hit Evilina in the back of the head and told her to stop crying! He was patronizing and sexist to the catwomen, he was ageist to Madonna, he told women in the princesses editorial who they should be role-modelling, the Linkara cameo was just "I'm back deal with it" and he's mocking child stars with rimshots added. He's the devil's best friend and bonds with him over torture, and he used to be a Papa Wolf who outright said he never wanted to hurt people again. I might not care about Designated Protagonist Syndrome, but that shit isn't okay.

Oh so all of a sudden a pat on the head makes him a child abuser? He's still a Papa Wolf, as shown later in the episode SEVERAL times. Where did he ever say he was the Devil's best friend? The only reason he did the favor was a sold soul, not out of friendship. I have so many other examples but even the ones I have right now are more than enough to throw out both bullets. Also, the editorials definitely show the growth in his demeanor.

A pat? Watch the episode dude, she slapped him lightly, he screamed and punched her in the back of the head, then when she cried, shouted at her to shut up. And they bonded over torture of Soulless and the devil was proud of him, how is that not friendship? Plus, they really don't, he knew all this stuff before and he keeps de-learning those lessons.

You're jumping to conclusions. Again, Zabub HAS HIS SOUL. Critic HAS to be friendly to him but can still be nice to other people as well. Doesn't make him an asshole. You're judging someone based on one or two minor acts. My point is that the DPS and FAM should not stand. I'm not saying Critic is perfect, but it's unfair to hold him to that standard. Critic is still learning, and thus his "arc is complete" claim is invalid. Please understand that both bullets should remain off.

Fine, completely deviate from my point. This has been a triggering conversation anyway and I need a drink.

I have to agree with Jones. It's also written that people were more interested in the Kardashian slams... REALLY? That's a single joke! What were people expecting? A Kardashian joke every single episode? What's the fun in that? You're telling me enough of the audience was fapping off to Malcolm's Devil portrayal to make it notable? That just can't be true

And also, as point 2 of my edit summary (I pressed my enter key expecting a new line, instead saving my edit early) you're treating it like Nostalgia Critic has to be 100% perfect. That's some pretty screwed up expectations. People have brief relapses. Nobody makes good decisions 100% of the time. People are allowed to be frustrated and make mistakes. Just because people are being unrealistic doesn't mean the show doesn't deserve to be about The Nostalgia Critic.

"brief relapses" =/= hitting kids and giving torture tips to the devil, dude.

You're harping on the hit like it makes a difference. It was the equivalent of an elbow to the chest. And again, it was not that hard. Not only is giving advice to the devil not normal or possible human behavior to begin with, but EVERYONE in To Boldly Flee partied with That Guy, who is one of the other two forms of the very same character, at the end. WITH SUPPLIED cocaine. What's with the double standard? Again, you're making it seem like the Nostalgia Critic has to be the most perfect human being, which is completely unfair, and doesn't support your point at all.

It's an audience reaction trope which means more than 2 people have to support it or else all audience reaction tropes would be listed in YMMV. "Look through fandom places"? That's like the first 600 times someone screams "WOLF!" and there be no wolf. Kid would have to defend themselves saying "There was a wolf! I swear! I swear!". Or everytime Candace fails to bust her brothers because there was no EVIDENCE. I have scoured the internet for any place that has a majority of people saying it, and there are no results. Nowhere did it say "Why can't the show be about them instead of the Nostalgia Critic?". That's the point of DPS: Does the character deserve to still be the focus. If it can't be proven, it shouldn't be there.

And The Cat in the Hat speech is not an example of Base Breaker either, because the poster clearly made it up considering how descriptive the pessimist side is. It's way too specific to cover enough people's opinions

He made her cry and then yelled at her to stop. And this is hellspawn, that's pretty hard. And you're calling Double Standard? They partied at the end of To Boldly Flee because they needed it and none of them even talked to Ask That Guy. The devil liked the way Critic thought and Critic was pleased by Soulless's screams in hell, nobody's asking for perfection, just the same guy who ranted about how he's done nothing to make anyone's life better.

And scoured the internet? How is that even possible? When Tiggle3 argued the same thing as you did, people on the same side gave proof and it was deemed not good enough. That's missing the point of YMMV.

"Clearly made it up"? That's trusting. The example tried to give both sides.

Look, I'm sorry your precious Demo Reel was canned, alright? But that's no excuse for you to constantly put down the post-revival episodes and constantly try to twist their genuinely good moments into cynical, pessimistic tripe.

YMMV does not require a wide consensus in most cases since in practice, not "everything" gets added as an example.

For the record, Emeriin, they didn't give proof. They just linked to TGWTG fan livejournals. There may be TGWTG fans there, but the fans mostly come from Facebook, Twitter, TGWTG, Blip, and You Tube. You Tube is a monster of its own not only because of Super Critics, Doug's official You Tube channel where people still comment their praises, but the fact that others STILL UPLOAD THE EPISODES TO THEIR OWN CHANNEL. Think about how many people do it. If so many thought that NC sucked the way you're describing, wouldn't they have stopped? You added the point back because it went unopposed, when the opposition was wiped off.

And of course the bit on the speech was cynical! Who would go as far to say "it was still filled with straw, Tastes Like Diabetes and weird dead-eyed acting?" and not show extreme bias when typing that? And how many people would you expect to agree with those exact feelings? It's incredibly specific, and the sentiment was found nowhere else

And Septimus, Audience Reaction tropes should represent bigger masses than the individual, or else anyone can add anything and according to you it'd be fine. It may be called "Your Mileage May Vary" but it needs major rep to be notable, or else any slight variation in opinion could be listed. It'd be a huge mess

It is YMMV. Everyone's useless fucking opinion is as welcome as anyone else's useless fucking opinion. Including yours. We are not the folks who get to say which ones are more or less useless than the others. There is no "proof" of these opinions, and we wouldn't be interested in it if there was.

What people think of some performer on a webcast is just so not what we're about, at all. That's why we have reviews session, so people can keep that junk out of the way of why we're here.

It is not YMMV and no ounce of expletives or rambling will change that. The stuff you're trying to defend does not depict the show or its fandom at all. Designated Protagonist Syndrome does not fit and that's that. If it's all useless then why have YMMV at all?

Designated Protagonist Syndrome is someone's opinion, so YMMV. It's not about the show. It's not about a so-called fandom either.

We have YMMV to collect opinions. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're completely missing the point of YMMV. It's not just someone's' opinion, because it's supposed to represent the bigger picture, or else theoretically, any YMMV trope could apply, and then there'd be no point

In theory, any YMMV trope or Audience Reaction would apply to anything.

It doesn't happen in practice. So you are wrong on the reasons, there is no practical way of telling "the bigger picture" and that is not what YMMV is there for.

How about this rewording?

Designated Protagonist Syndrome: Now that his character arc is done, some might say Critic is the least interesting thing about the revival. For example, in Son Of The Mask, he has a big begging-for-death breakdown, but look through fandom places and that's mostly ignored in favor of talking about the film, the pony and Kardashian slams, how moe Psychopathic Womanchild Evilina was, how sexy Malcolm was in his suit, Santa Christ being evil (but only in some places), and figuring out Channel Awesome mythology.

So uh, page is open and nobody's argued against it, so may I put it in?

Bleh it's been two weeks. Putting it in.

The fandom in Fan Dumb are the Vocal Minority, hopefully.

Hmm. I agree with you that you can enjoy episodes in any order and hell, not even everyone knows it's just a character with backstory and crap, but the laconic for CLO is: "The later you join the fandom, the less you understand what's going on," and the year long call backs are especially that. I'll think it over and try and reword the person's example a bit. :)