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OneEyedDragon
topic
01:44:03 PM Aug 12th 2014
Removed the references to Manipulative Bastard. The distinction- that M-B's don't do what they do For the Evulz, while a Troll does- is entirely false. Manipulative Bastard was originally going to be called The Iago, after the villain of Othello, and he point-blank gains nothing apart from making the people around him suffer. Many other Manipulative Bastards are just as sadistic.

At best, Troll is a sub-trope of M-B.
magnum12
topic
02:33:17 PM Jan 23rd 2013
edited by 69.172.221.4
This topic is for the discussion of potential borderline case characters who either blur the line between Troll and The Gad Fly (usually an easy difference, but does run into problems when dealing with morally ambiguous characters) or between Troll and Manipulative Bastard.

Past Rulings: 1. Lambadelta: Troll (done on TRS page)

Characters to be discussed (will update when new cases arise):

1. Etna: Morally ambiguous type 4/5 antihero. Definate trickster. Actively enjoys pissing people off (though the viewer WILL most likely find what she does funny). The issue is the motive. Is it lulz (a dark gadfly) or does she like hurting people (low grade troll)?

2. Fenrich: Potential borderline example of Manipulative Bastard and Troll Currently classfied as both Manipulative Bastard and Troll with explanations as to why clearly posted. On a humorous side note, he has a "troll face" esque Psychotic Smirk when he's about to (or just did) pull his shenanigans.

3. Eric Cartman: Scenario like Fenrich above. Exceptionally sadistic about it as well.
Ironeye
moderator
topic
04:39:58 PM Jan 21st 2013
Pulled some examples with insufficient context. Feel free to put them back with a description of how the characters are Trolls.

  • Kid Icarus: Uprising: Hades. Oh good LORD, Hades...
  • In Touhou, Yukari Yakumo is portrayed as one in fanon. How she acts in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody can be seen as such.
magnum12
08:39:55 AM Jan 23rd 2013
I've heards that Hades is legitimately a troll, especially regarding the "Wish Seed Incident" which is something he does solely to cause humanity to spread strife and death for his amusement.
rosewater
topic
07:24:15 AM Nov 17th 2012
I'm about halfway through the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand - I think Dominique and Ellsworth Toohey (moreso the former), writing for the NY Banner, are both seminal examples of trolls. Ayn Rand portrays Dominique more as an "inverse troll", in that she's a sane voice that's become nihilistic in a world of idiots. She lives her life as a reaction to the stupidity of these idiots, and devotes basically all her time and energy to making fun of them (Keating, Council of American Builders, Toohey, etc).
Laevatein
topic
03:44:12 PM Oct 10th 2012
Mythology and Religion:
  • The Nigerian trickster god Edshu: In one story, he walks down the road wearing a hat that is red on one side and blue on the other. When people on one side of the road ask "Who's that going by in the red hat?", they get into fights with people on the other side who insist that the hat was blue. The god takes credit for this, saying "Spreading strife is my greatest joy."

Radio:
  • "Shock Jocks" are essentially professional trolls.
manhandled
topic
05:59:08 AM Aug 10th 2012
WHERE ARE REAL LIFE EXAMPLES?

TROLLS ARE REAL!

PROBLEM?

YEA, I HAVE A PROBLEM!
Gatordragon24
09:16:27 PM Sep 14th 2012
edited by Gatordragon24
Calm down. If the main page were to list real life examples, there would be so many that we'd be here all day. Yes trolls are real, but do we really need to put in real life examples? Besides, there is no need to spread gossip around here. It says so on the No Real Life Examples, Please! page.
tsstevens
01:03:25 AM Oct 7th 2012
You want us to honor those who spend their lives trying to upset others?
FelixMartinez
02:59:14 PM Jun 13th 2013
Frankly yes, but Gatordragon24 has a point.
kraas
topic
10:06:21 AM May 20th 2012

We want Trollface.
Telcontar
moderator
10:16:48 AM May 20th 2012
We don't want memes. And this one's funnier.
AndyLA
01:12:07 PM May 23rd 2012
I was thinking of this, how Trollface's become so synonymous with the practice of trolling. So, after thinking, I concluded that the Visual Pun is somewhat better. Just saying.
MrUnderhill
07:13:42 PM Jun 3rd 2012
Wait...so you come to the article, expecting Trollface, and instead you get a picture of an actual troll? Meta-trolling. I like it.
kraas
10:47:08 AM Jul 21st 2012
Some of us do want memes. And it's not meta-trolling, it's boring.
Telcontar
moderator
11:21:27 AM Jul 21st 2012
Image changes should go through the Image Pickin' forum. Here is part of the first post of one stickied thread there:

'''The following are reasons to instantly pull an image and start a thread to replace it:
<snip>
A Demotivator, LOLCat, or other meme-based picture.note

If it were to somehow make it onto the page, it could be pulled as soon as possible. You can, technically, start an IP thread suggesting the image; I can prettymuch guarrantee you that the change wouldn't go through, possibly with the thread being locked instantly or zapped. TV Tropes is not Know Your Meme — see Edit Tip #15, "Memes don't automatically make things wittier. Resist the urge to shoehorn one in.".

I personally consider the Trollface image overused, cheap, ugly, and boring. This image shows the kind of personality a troll could have, and I find it amusing. The art is also better.
jiglitilittllitllopin
topic
06:08:49 AM May 7th 2012
If we're going to use the XKCD example "Try to post a comment on youtube that is so stupid and offensive that it cannot be taken seriously and immediately recognized as a parody of youtube comments. You will fail." — and we totally should — Someone should really link to the comic where that was stated. Google seems to be unable to find it.
TARINunit9
06:21:53 PM Sep 24th 2012
It's the alt-text for Limerick. Also, the exact quote is "Fun game: try to post a YouTube comment so stupid that people realize you must be joking. (Hint: this is impossible)"
Koveras
topic
04:59:10 AM May 5th 2012
Have another example:

  • Javik the Last Prothean from the Mass Effect 3 DLC is a major troll, who loves to deliberately taunt everyone on the Normandy for his own amusement (especially Liara with her fangirlism over Protheans). He gets away with it thanks to being of a clearly Superior Species and nobody knows quite how to come back at him.
AkiraxAtsukifan
topic
05:58:34 PM Apr 13th 2012
I want to add Palutena and technically all the Gods/Goddesses in Kid Icarus Uprising to the page given that they all exist just to troll Pit (and Dark Pit).
BlakeDiamond
topic
08:06:35 PM Mar 7th 2012
edited by BlakeDiamond
I have a few suggestions to add:

Basco ta Jolokia from Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger, being an Expy of Kaito/DiEnd, also seems to exist simply to screw with the heroes (and even the villains later-on) for shits and giggles.

Chris Jericho's return made him one of the most sucessful examples of Trolling in recent wrestling history. He came back as a Face, and spent almost all of his screentime rallying up the crowd into a frenzy, then leaving without saying a word. After the Royal Rumble, he turned Heel and claimed it was all a ruse that the entire WWE Universe fell for.

If the fanbase is to be believed, Princess Celestia, her pet Philomeena, and Pinkie Pie (all from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic) can all be seen as various types of trolls.

(Also an Image suggestion. Instead of the current pic, why not have the ever-present Trollface? The whole page seems incomplete without it.)
magnum12
topic
08:22:27 PM Feb 22nd 2012
Yet another example.

Mion Sonozaki's punishment games in When They Cry seem to scream Poke the Poodle grade trolling, especially to her favorite target Keiichi. Always some of the funnier moments, especially the one involving the swan tutu.
Taiyokun
topic
02:32:34 PM Dec 26th 2011
I don't know if this is good advice, but if it is, someone try to add it.

Another way to deal with a troll is to be neutral about it, if you end up responding due to lack of self restraint. They like your anger, so don't give it to them.

I kinda wanted to get it out of my system so sorry if it sounds strange.
Scardoll
11:25:44 PM Jan 21st 2012
The problem there is, a troll will perceive any sort of attention as anger. Even comments to the effect of "I don't give a shit" imply that you do, in fact, give a shit. That's why ignoring/reporting them is important; the troll will be desperately looking for responses to his bullshit.
dxman
topic
03:51:04 AM Dec 23rd 2011
Why is Andy Kaufman on this page? He should be removed.
Illuminatus
11:28:39 PM Jan 21st 2012
It needs some explanation: Kaufman once appeared on a Saturday Night Live rip-off but played a practical joke on his colleagues on live TV. He refused to say his lines and went completely off script until it turned into a brawl with Michael Richards.
TehFireShark
topic
03:49:55 PM Nov 19th 2011
No trollface.jpg? Come on, even Wikipedia has it.
kraas
03:42:53 PM Jan 29th 2012
I concur. Also, stinger should be added saying "u mad bro?".
LikaLaruku
topic
04:21:44 PM Nov 8th 2011
It's locked, but please add if you agree that it counts as trolling:

[anime] Yurika from "Goldfish Warning": Her sole purpose is to troll the rival school owned by her rival Chitose. She uses her henchmen to bait students into traps that if successful would lead to public humiliation. She also sends her henchmen to sabotage school events & turn everything into a contest where she & Chitose have to one-up eachother.
ZenimaxShakespere
topic
07:45:27 AM Sep 12th 2011
One thing this article needs to put in the trolls section is: don't assume everyone acting like an asshole — or worse, that everyone online that YOU don't like — is a troll. Don't be so GOD DAMN PARANOID and assume everyone is OUT TO GET YOU. That kind of CHICKEN-SHIT CONSPIRACY THEORIST mindset needs to be slapped down just as hard as the "9/11 was an inside job" crackpots.

From my experience, "a troll! he's a troll!" has become the new "she's a witch! may we burn her?" Yes, people like that exist. But 9/10 times, "troll" is just a bogeyman.

And it's become the go-to insult for anyone somebody doesn't like. In a mostly-republican forum and talk about democrats? TROLL!! In a sports chat and root for an unpopular team? TROLL!! Say you like pepsi, and not coke? GOD DAMN MOTHERFUCKING TROLLS UP IN HERE. Now THAT shit needs to stop. Fear of trolls is far more damaging than the real trolls.

And you know what? This public paranoia and fear of trolls engendered by the original trolls of old? You're doing exactly what they wanted, decades after they have left the scene: anger and strife amongst yourselves over their hurtful words. Good job, people. Good job.

Before you go "durr hurr cyberbullying hurr durr" well yes those are real trolls. But the 999/1000 other people you've accused of trolling today? You're no better than politicians comparing the president to Hitler. That's right, you're Bill O'Reilly. Knock it off, hypocrite.
SgtFrog1
11:57:06 AM Sep 21st 2011
Poe's Law in action here, folks. It's almost impossible to sort out the trolls from people who simply have differing opinions.
Jonn
07:04:48 AM Oct 6th 2011
I've been accused and seen people accused of being a troll just for discussing something logically, if somewhat sardonically. I've seen people accused of being "concern trolls" just for telling Straw Feminists that swearing at people and dismissing their opinions out of hand might not be helping them get the message across. I've also seen a guy accused of trying to troll a blog—Kotaku, specifically—just because he politely suggested that they shouldn't say "fuck" in their headline. The individual making the accusation also said that if the complainer was sincere, he needed to grow up. So they both accused him of trolling, and fell for the "troll". If this has taught me anything, it's that the people who make these accusations are often kind of irrational, and cannot distinguish between "this post upsets me" and "this post was meant' to upset me".
AceOfScarabs
topic
06:50:20 AM Aug 2nd 2011
A suitable theme song for this page:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY
IraTheSquire
topic
09:31:55 PM Jul 3rd 2011
edited by IraTheSquire
A man was jailed (and freed) for trolling on Facebook:

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/facebook-vandal-jailed-20110325-1c9mq.html

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/facebook-troll-set-free-20110603-1fjwb.html

Can possibly go on here, if anything that might deter people from trolling.
WaxingName
topic
09:36:28 AM Jun 7th 2011
Please add this to Newspaper Comics:

  • Rat of Pearls Before Swine shows appreciation for the internet because it allows him to be anonymously rude to people.
Midna
topic
03:16:12 PM May 23rd 2011
I can't request an edit to this article because I'm forum-banned, but I just wanted to point out that as far as I know, the actual xkcd quote is "Fun game: try to post a YouTube comment so stupid that people realize you must be joking. (Hint: this is impossible)".
Nitramy
topic
02:23:03 AM May 14th 2011
Should Yukari from Touhou be added to the list? She does, after all, have a pool in that 'booru dedicated to her using gaps to troll people with.
SpellBlade
02:47:12 AM May 14th 2011
Write the example, then post it in this thread.
Po8
topic
02:08:33 AM May 5th 2011
Why is this page title capitalized? It's not an acronym, after all...
ergeis
topic
08:29:23 PM Apr 30th 2011
No mention of The Joker or Prince Baka?
SotiCoto
topic
09:09:15 AM Apr 6th 2011
edited by SotiCoto
Why is the article so entirely perjorative in nature? The straw-manning is bad enough on its own, but whoever wrote the article on trolls just seems to be going out of their way to be as bigoted as humanly possible. It strikes me as rather hypocritical, frankly, though it depends what the intent of the article really is: sincere or trolling in its own right. If the latter, then since I seem to be the only one thus far spurred by it then I doubt its effectiveness.

Either way, for some trolling is an exact science. For others it is a delicate artform. For more again it is a way of life, and even unavoidable in some cases. The misrepresentation here of all (or even most) trolls as crude, inept idiots looking for no more than a cheap laugh is absurd... and will only lead to misinformation and further prejudice from the general community.

All that aside, I probably shouldn't rewrite the article myself as it would become clear that I am myself biased in the opposite direction, and as such I cannot provide an impartial account. So would someone who isn't excessively bigoted against our socially manipulative ways mind rewriting the article more fairly?

[Note: This is written not to provoke a negative reaction, but a positive one (effectiveness aside). If you react negatively to it, on your own shoulders be it.]
TotalDomination
08:13:21 AM Jun 28th 2011
Are you seriously white-knighting trolls of all kinds of people? Do you take hard drugs of any kind?

Seriously, if you've thought about the whole thing as long & hard as I have, you'll realize that trolls are essentially nothing more than school-yard bullies. It doesn't matter if they view it as an art form, a science or a life-style (you'd have to be really pathetic to view trolling as an acceptable life-style. Hell, Scientology is more acceptable than being a troll. Yeah, I said it). In the end, they're only picking on people to get a negative reaction out of them, in a sad & pathetic attempt to boost their non-existent self-esteem, much like a school-yard bully would.

While not all trolls are like this (sometimes they act like douche-bags in order to get a laugh out of other people, much like a class-clown), the majority of them are.

& before you call me out & say "Derp-de-durr ur just bein a canibal troll fuk u!", I'm speaking from experience here. I used to be a troll. I know what it's like to both receive & give.

I used to troll because it made me feel good. I picked easy targets because I knew I was mightier than them, intellectually, & I could use that power to ruin their day, just to make mine better. That's how trolls operate, they pick people whom they believe to be easy targets, because they suffer from "Denied Depression Syndrome", so, subconsciously, they pick on others just to feel better, if only temporarily.

I've also dealt with trolls in the past as well. They choose to pick on me because of my unpopular views &, put nicely, less than perfect personality. In their head, they're thinking "Oh, a 14 year old brat, this is gonna be fun!", but really, they're only doing it just to feel better, all while they're thinking that they're doing good by "teaching me a lesson". It's even sadder because, yes, I am a young teenager. These middle aged men, get off on picking on children. It doesn't take a psychologist to know that's just fucking sad, as it shows just how empty they are on the inside.

They're just depressed people who need help, but they're never going to get that help if they keep up their bullshit. Some of them actually like living their lives as bullies, thinking that they don't need help. That just further proves my point that they're depressed losers who are in denial that what they're doing is wrong.
SgtFrog1
11:49:51 AM Sep 21st 2011
If Soti Coto's post is actually subtle trolling, he (or she) will deserve the title of Magnificent Bastard/Bitch.
66.212.24.125
topic
06:31:07 PM Mar 21st 2011
edited by 66.212.24.125
Great Teacher Onizuka is a great anime example. He constantly performs bizarre acts and has extreme bipolar behavior. He even has the same face as the internet troll when he's trolling (perhaps he even inspired it).

Regular face: http://www.animekiwi.com/great-teacher-onizuka/ Troll face: http://www.animecrazy.net/great-teacher-onizuka-images/166/Image/7177 http://realotakugamer.com/not-so-hot-for-teacher-great-teacher-onizuka-gto-review
tsstevens
topic
04:37:29 PM Jan 27th 2011
Michael Cole might be an example, this is his reaction to the IWC, Daniel Bryan fans, he basically liks who everyone else hates and hates who everyone else likes.
LeftVentricle
topic
01:21:21 PM Jan 11th 2011
Can we add meta examples? For example, anime production house Gainax is well known for their controversial show endings, most recent being Panty & Stocking. Their fandom erupts with cries of "GODDAMMIT GAINAX IS TROLLING US AGAIN" and the like. Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation "trolled" the Haruhi fanbase in a similar manner by extending the "Endless Eight" story, which was a one-shot in its source book, into eight episodes of nearly identical content.
Illuminatus
topic
10:01:43 AM Jan 5th 2011
I have another example to add, under Web Original

  • Conservapaedia has fallen especially victim to trolls, having been infiltrated to it's highest levels more than once by users acting as Poe's Law parodies of extreme Conservatives.
Fruitmassacre
topic
03:07:18 PM Dec 29th 2010
edited by Fruitmassacre
"Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei has Meru Otonashi, who (true to her name) is extremely shy around others, and only communicates through text messages... pretty much all of which consist entirely of outrageous slander of the recipient. And don't even think about taking her phone away, because she has extras."

It should be libel, not slander. Slander is spoken; libel is written.
Majutsukai
04:11:33 PM Dec 29th 2010
That's the legal definition. In the layman's usage, "slander" can refer to any form of defamation.
ergeis
04:16:31 AM May 31st 2011
Nice Spiderman reference(?)
OneMore
topic
07:11:33 AM Nov 28th 2010
Is it possible to add an example? An actual example, not trolling.
Antwan
topic
02:10:01 AM Nov 19th 2010
That Homestuck one isn't very accurate considering all 12 trolls are now introduced. Perhaps you could remove that one part?
Descriptor
01:16:41 PM Feb 5th 2011
Actually, it could use an entire reworking. The troll race itself is essentially a race of internet trolls. I mean, they fear sunlight (for good reason) and have an entire system of romance based on hatred. That combined with the group basically encompassing the large majority of internet personalities really backs this up.
Adannor
08:10:46 AM Feb 18th 2011
Simpliest way to detail the example on this page would be:
Homestuck trolls were introduced like this at first, trolling the initial four protagonists over the internet, but with time they were revealed to be an entirely separate species, actually called Trolls, and their initial trolling was merely an introduction for some of them.
TBeholder
topic
04:43:56 AM Sep 10th 2010
Lionheart0
topic
09:04:39 AM Aug 26th 2010
I had an example that I thought would be good;

In Mass Effect 2, the Player character's, Shepard, choices are made by the Player. A lot of the renegade choices comes off as purely trolling the NP Cs, like accusing a Shopkeeper of being prejudice against the poor after they refuse to lower their prices.
codenamehunterwolf
03:31:48 PM Aug 26th 2010
I think they're meant to be more along the lines of Insane Troll Logic, but certainly see if one of the site staff would be willing to put it in.

Speaking of which...Jack. Even when you try to romance her she still swears at you. She might count as well.
codenamehunterwolf
topic
05:18:20 PM Aug 18th 2010
edited by codenamehunterwolf
I don't care what you think As long as it's about me The best of us can find happiness in misery

Seems like Fall Out Boy's I Don't Care is fitting for the page. Shame it's locked.
SoWeAteThem
12:20:31 PM Sep 2nd 2010
edited by SoWeAteThem
There's a quotes page, ain't there?
Headrock
topic
03:24:47 PM Aug 12th 2010
edited by Headrock
I've got an interesting example to add to this topic, and since it's locked (which I guess is a good thing), I'll just share it here for now.

Miscellaneous:
  • Another example that this is Older than You Think is the Jewish collector Avraham Schwedrin. In the early 20th century, the mostly-insane Schwedrin embarked on a project to collect autographs and examples of handwriting from as many famous Jewish people as he could. His primary method for achieving this was through correspondence, wherein Schwedrin would politely and kindly ask for an autograph. However, after the aging collection was submitted to the national archives and researched, it became apparent that oftentimes Schwedrin would write a letter full of mindless drivel and blatant ass-kissing instead - with the direct intention of getting the recipient to respond with with an angry "don't ever write to me again, you moron". Apparently, he preferred them replying with anger than not replying at all. In fact, the young Albert Einstein responded with a long tirade about how stupid Schwedrin's letter to him was, and how he must be the stupidest person Einstein had ever had the displeasure to converse with. That letter is one of the crown jewels of the collection, and considered a major asset for the National Archives.
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