Discussion Main / Troll

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Why is Social Experiment a redirect to this?, started by IanExMachina on Mar 22nd 2011 at 9:50:04 PM

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Misused, started by MegaJ on Apr 22nd 2012 at 5:08:39 AM

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by BlueGuy on Sep 1st 2012 at 5:47:27 PM

Who is Lemon Art, the creator mentioned in the caption? I couldn't find them on Deviantart. We need a link to whatever website the picture is from.

Removed Satan for being a Zero Context Example.

I wonder if Doctor Who characters, specially River Song, The Doctor himself and Master/Missy would count as Trolls. River Song trolled the Nazis once and The Doctor himself several times, The Doctor pulled some every now and then, and Master/Missy... Well, see what he did.

Removed Celestia from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic; the example had no context, was fan opinion reliant and I doubts about her qualifying.

• Celestia as well, even if it is unintentional. Most fans deem her a a Westen counterpart to Kazuma Yukki save the fact Celestia isn't evil

Here's another example:

In episode 35 of Yu Yu Hakusho (preferably dubbed), that troll doctor fits this trope nearly perfectly, based on his looks, his laughs, his manipulation of emotions, etc.

Removed the references to Manipulative Bastard. The distinction- that M-B's don't do what they do For the Evulz, while a Troll does- is entirely false. Manipulative Bastard was originally going to be called The Iago, after the villain of Othello, and he point-blank gains nothing apart from making the people around him suffer. Many other Manipulative Bastards are just as sadistic.

At best, Troll is a sub-trope of M-B.

WHERE ARE REAL LIFE EXAMPLES?

TROLLS ARE REAL!

PROBLEM?

YEA, I HAVE A PROBLEM!

This topic is for the discussion of potential borderline case characters who either blur the line between Troll and The Gad Fly (usually an easy difference, but does run into problems when dealing with morally ambiguous characters) or between Troll and Manipulative Bastard.

Past Rulings: 1. Lambadelta: Troll (done on TRS page)

Characters to be discussed (will update when new cases arise):

1. Etna: Morally ambiguous type 4/5 antihero. Definate trickster. Actively enjoys pissing people off (though the viewer WILL most likely find what she does funny). The issue is the motive. Is it lulz (a dark gadfly) or does she like hurting people (low grade troll)?

2. Fenrich: Potential borderline example of Manipulative Bastard and Troll Currently classfied as both Manipulative Bastard and Troll with explanations as to why clearly posted. On a humorous side note, he has a "troll face" esque Psychotic Smirk when he's about to (or just did) pull his shenanigans.

3. Eric Cartman: Scenario like Fenrich above. Exceptionally sadistic about it as well.

Pulled some examples with insufficient context. Feel free to put them back with a description of how the characters are Trolls.

• Kid Icarus Uprising: Hades. Oh good LORD, Hades...
• In Touhou, Yukari Yakumo is portrayed as one in fanon. How she acts in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody can be seen as such.

I'm about halfway through the Fountainhead by Ayn Rand - I think Dominique and Ellsworth Toohey (moreso the former), writing for the NY Banner, are both seminal examples of trolls. Ayn Rand portrays Dominique more as an "inverse troll", in that she's a sane voice that's become nihilistic in a world of idiots. She lives her life as a reaction to the stupidity of these idiots, and devotes basically all her time and energy to making fun of them (Keating, Council of American Builders, Toohey, etc).

Mythology and Religion:

• The Nigerian trickster god Edshu: In one story, he walks down the road wearing a hat that is red on one side and blue on the other. When people on one side of the road ask "Who's that going by in the red hat?", they get into fights with people on the other side who insist that the hat was blue. The god takes credit for this, saying "Spreading strife is my greatest joy."

Radio:

• "Shock Jocks" are essentially professional trolls.

If we're going to use the XKCD example "Try to post a comment on youtube that is so stupid and offensive that it cannot be taken seriously and immediately recognized as a parody of youtube comments. You will fail." — and we totally should — Someone should really link to the comic where that was stated. Google seems to be unable to find it.

We want Trollface.

Have another example:

• Javik the Last Prothean from the Mass Effect 3 DLC is a major troll, who loves to deliberately taunt everyone on the Normandy for his own amusement (especially Liara with her fangirlism over Protheans). He gets away with it thanks to being of a clearly Superior Species and nobody knows quite how to come back at him.

I want to add Palutena and technically all the Gods/Goddesses in Kid Icarus Uprising to the page given that they all exist just to troll Pit (and Dark Pit).

I have a few suggestions to add:

Basco ta Jolokia from Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger, being an Expy of Kaito/DiEnd, also seems to exist simply to screw with the heroes (and even the villains later-on) for shits and giggles.

Chris Jericho's return made him one of the most sucessful examples of Trolling in recent wrestling history. He came back as a Face, and spent almost all of his screentime rallying up the crowd into a frenzy, then leaving without saying a word. After the Royal Rumble, he turned Heel and claimed it was all a ruse that the entire WWE Universe fell for.

If the fanbase is to be believed, Princess Celestia, her pet Philomeena, and Pinkie Pie (all from My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic) can all be seen as various types of trolls.

(Also an Image suggestion. Instead of the current pic, why not have the ever-present Trollface? The whole page seems incomplete without it.)

Yet another example.

Mion Sonozaki's punishment games in When They Cry seem to scream Poke the Poodle grade trolling, especially to her favorite target Keiichi. Always some of the funnier moments, especially the one involving the swan tutu.

No trollface.jpg? Come on, even Wikipedia has it.

Why is Andy Kaufman on this page? He should be removed.

I don't know if this is good advice, but if it is, someone try to add it.

Another way to deal with a troll is to be neutral about it, if you end up responding due to lack of self restraint. They like your anger, so don't give it to them.

I kinda wanted to get it out of my system so sorry if it sounds strange.

It's locked, but please add if you agree that it counts as trolling:

[anime] Yurika from "Goldfish Warning": Her sole purpose is to troll the rival school owned by her rival Chitose. She uses her henchmen to bait students into traps that if successful would lead to public humiliation. She also sends her henchmen to sabotage school events & turn everything into a contest where she & Chitose have to one-up eachother.

One thing this article needs to put in the trolls section is: don't assume everyone acting like an asshole — or worse, that everyone online that YOU don't like — is a troll. Don't be so GOD DAMN PARANOID and assume everyone is OUT TO GET YOU. That kind of CHICKEN-SHIT CONSPIRACY THEORIST mindset needs to be slapped down just as hard as the "9/11 was an inside job" crackpots.

From my experience, "a troll! he's a troll!" has become the new "she's a witch! may we burn her?" Yes, people like that exist. But 9/10 times, "troll" is just a bogeyman.

And it's become the go-to insult for anyone somebody doesn't like. In a mostly-republican forum and talk about democrats? TROLL!! In a sports chat and root for an unpopular team? TROLL!! Say you like pepsi, and not coke? GOD DAMN MOTHERFUCKING TROLLS UP IN HERE. Now THAT shit needs to stop. Fear of trolls is far more damaging than the real trolls.

And you know what? This public paranoia and fear of trolls engendered by the original trolls of old? You're doing exactly what they wanted, decades after they have left the scene: anger and strife amongst yourselves over their hurtful words. Good job, people. Good job.

Before you go "durr hurr cyberbullying hurr durr" well yes those are real trolls. But the 999/1000 other people you've accused of trolling today? You're no better than politicians comparing the president to Hitler. That's right, you're Bill O'Reilly. Knock it off, hypocrite.

Why is the article so entirely perjorative in nature? The straw-manning is bad enough on its own, but whoever wrote the article on trolls just seems to be going out of their way to be as bigoted as humanly possible. It strikes me as rather hypocritical, frankly, though it depends what the intent of the article really is: sincere or trolling in its own right. If the latter, then since I seem to be the only one thus far spurred by it then I doubt its effectiveness.

Either way, for some trolling is an exact science. For others it is a delicate artform. For more again it is a way of life, and even unavoidable in some cases. The misrepresentation here of all (or even most) trolls as crude, inept idiots looking for no more than a cheap laugh is absurd... and will only lead to misinformation and further prejudice from the general community.

All that aside, I probably shouldn't rewrite the article myself as it would become clear that I am myself biased in the opposite direction, and as such I cannot provide an impartial account. So would someone who isn't excessively bigoted against our socially manipulative ways mind rewriting the article more fairly?

[Note: This is written not to provoke a negative reaction, but a positive one (effectiveness aside). If you react negatively to it, on your own shoulders be it.]

A suitable theme song for this page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

A man was jailed (and freed) for trolling on Facebook:

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/facebook-vandal-jailed-20110325-1c9mq.html

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/facebook-troll-set-free-20110603-1fjwb.html

Can possibly go on here, if anything that might deter people from trolling.

Please add this to Newspaper Comics:

• Rat of Pearls Before Swine shows appreciation for the internet because it allows him to be anonymously rude to people.

"Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei has Meru Otonashi, who (true to her name) is extremely shy around others, and only communicates through text messages... pretty much all of which consist entirely of outrageous slander of the recipient. And don't even think about taking her phone away, because she has extras."

It should be libel, not slander. Slander is spoken; libel is written.

I can't request an edit to this article because I'm forum-banned, but I just wanted to point out that as far as I know, the actual xkcd quote is "Fun game: try to post a You Tube comment so stupid that people realize you must be joking. (Hint: this is impossible)".

Should Yukari from Touhou be added to the list? She does, after all, have a pool in that 'booru dedicated to her using gaps to troll people with.

Why is this page title capitalized? It's not an acronym, after all...

No mention of The Joker or Prince Baka?

Great Teacher Onizuka is a great anime example. He constantly performs bizarre acts and has extreme bipolar behavior. He even has the same face as the internet troll when he's trolling (perhaps he even inspired it).

Regular face: http://www.animekiwi.com/great-teacher-onizuka/ Troll face: http://www.animecrazy.net/great-teacher-onizuka-images/166/Image/7177 http://realotakugamer.com/not-so-hot-for-teacher-great-teacher-onizuka-gto-review

That Homestuck one isn't very accurate considering all 12 trolls are now introduced. Perhaps you could remove that one part?

Michael Cole might be an example, this is his reaction to the IWC, Daniel Bryan fans, he basically liks who everyone else hates and hates who everyone else likes.

Can we add meta examples? For example, anime production house Gainax is well known for their controversial show endings, most recent being Panty & Stocking. Their fandom erupts with cries of "GODDAMMIT GAINAX IS TROLLING US AGAIN" and the like. Kadokawa and Kyoto Animation "trolled" the Haruhi fanbase in a similar manner by extending the "Endless Eight" story, which was a one-shot in its source book, into eight episodes of nearly identical content.

I have another example to add, under Web Original

• Conservapaedia has fallen especially victim to trolls, having been infiltrated to it's highest levels more than once by users acting as Poe's Law parodies of extreme Conservatives.

Is it possible to add an example? An actual example, not trolling.

Aww...

I don't care what you think As long as it's about me The best of us can find happiness in misery

Seems like Fall Out Boy's I Don't Care is fitting for the page. Shame it's locked.

I had an example that I thought would be good;

In Mass Effect 2, the Player character's, Shepard, choices are made by the Player. A lot of the renegade choices comes off as purely trolling the NP Cs, like accusing a Shopkeeper of being prejudice against the poor after they refuse to lower their prices.

I've got an interesting example to add to this topic, and since it's locked (which I guess is a good thing), I'll just share it here for now.

Miscellaneous:

• Another example that this is Older than You Think is the Jewish collector Avraham Schwedrin. In the early 20th century, the mostly-insane Schwedrin embarked on a project to collect autographs and examples of handwriting from as many famous Jewish people as he could. His primary method for achieving this was through correspondence, wherein Schwedrin would politely and kindly ask for an autograph. However, after the aging collection was submitted to the national archives and researched, it became apparent that oftentimes Schwedrin would write a letter full of mindless drivel and blatant ass-kissing instead - with the direct intention of getting the recipient to respond with with an angry "don't ever write to me again, you moron". Apparently, he preferred them replying with anger than not replying at all. In fact, the young Albert Einstein responded with a long tirade about how stupid Schwedrin's letter to him was, and how he must be the stupidest person Einstein had ever had the displeasure to converse with. That letter is one of the crown jewels of the collection, and considered a major asset for the National Archives.