Literature Twilight Discussion

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01:25:39 PM Mar 27th 2016
Cut this example for sounding like shoehorning. Crossposting from here.

  • Bella of Twilight is described as an old soul because she's more responsible than her mom and she keeps to herself. When she found out she had conceived she was determined to carry the child despite the danger the pregnancy could bring her. Rosalie and Esme were the two women who were on her side on this because they understood Bella's desire to have children. Esme has always had strong maternal instincts that she shows through kindness to her surrogate children and the family's allies. Rosalie is described as always having been beautifully elegant and proud of it but she would trade her beauty for the chance to grow older and become a mother.
Reason for removal: The example mentions three female characters, but it is not clear at all how the fit the "maiden, mother, crone" pattern and it's not even clear how the three form a distinct group.
01:48:15 PM Mar 27th 2016
They are the three women that agree that Bella should carry the pregnancy to term. That makes them a group. They are not the same age but personality is what matters. Being described as an old soul means that Bella is the Crone. Always having strong maternal instincts makes Esme the Mother. Being beautifully elegant and but wanting to grow older and become a mother makes Rosalie the Maiden.
05:08:31 AM Mar 28th 2016
Another issue I have with this is that Esme - like in the rest of the series - has next to no focus throughout the entire pregnancy arc. Including her in the trio archetype is pushing it in my opinion.
10:48:18 AM Mar 28th 2016
Carlisle and Emmett side with Bella to keep her pregnancy but only because their wives, Rosalie and Esme, were on her side. That means Rosalie and Esme are the first two people that support Bell in her pregnancy. Carlisle was even against keeping the pregnancy until Esme changed his mind.
12:42:20 PM Mar 28th 2016
Even so, ALL of the focus, in all three parts of Breaking Dawn, is on the partnership between Bella and Rosalie in keeping Renesmee. Esme is more of an afterthought.
10:13:09 PM Jan 4th 2016
I admit i didn't look very hard but could we get some tropes for Life and Death?
02:30:42 PM Mar 12th 2015
Since some butthurt twihard apparently deleted the whole page, could someone please re-add it?
02:37:28 PM Mar 12th 2015
Any idea why it was done?
04:07:40 PM Mar 12th 2015
Vandal. Been reverted and banned.
04:12:34 PM Nov 14th 2014
What's with the Twilight: Los Angeles renaming? Does the series have anything to do with Los Angeles?
02:28:20 AM Nov 15th 2014
No, a bad Custom Title.
10:13:14 PM Sep 9th 2013
Twilight: Los Angeles. Keep the title.
09:46:07 AM Dec 17th 2013
It's Robot Unicorn Attack all over again.
12:01:06 PM Dec 17th 2013
Is this some sort of prank? "Twilight: Los Angeles" appears to be the title of a completely unrelated play...
12:52:55 PM Dec 17th 2013
A Custom Title was put in for some other page when it shouldn't have been. I've asked the mods to fix it.
06:14:22 AM Feb 24th 2013
About the recent edit stating Bella is no Satelite Character – she does in fact refer to herself as a satelite. Does that not qualify?
06:35:14 AM Feb 24th 2013
Referring to oneself with a trope name doesn't qualify. However, I think she is both The Everyman and a Satellite Character — all her interactions do revolve around Edward and she is bland otherwise.
06:03:54 PM Dec 12th 2012
I'm not offering to write it but is there a reason Twilight doesn't have a proper 'film' page to call its own? I mean like it or loathe it, it has been a pretty large part of popular culture and so given that say The Dark Knight Saga currently has a page for each one of it's films and a communal page for the series as a whole, Twilight as a major novel and film series should probably have at least one to sort the chaff from.... the other chaff
08:00:32 AM Dec 13th 2012
edited by Larkmarn
Largely because the film follows the books pretty religiously. Roughly 95% of the pages would be overlap.

The Dark Knight saga is... pretty irrelevant here. Unless you're advocating that each book should have its own page, it's utterly irrelevant.

A better example would be the Harry Potter series, which does have a separate Film and Literature page. Now, I'm not terribly familiar with the HP movies but a quick look at the page shows that it is so Troperiffic that the Film page (which is filled with Film-exclusive tropes) is necessary. Do you honestly think that the Twilight films deviate from the books, or have enough medium-specific tropes to justify splitting? Maybe if the page becomes too big, but Harry Potter is a much, much, bigger franchise.
10:57:05 PM Dec 16th 2012
They Wasted A Perfectly Good Actor

I watched the Eclipse movie because Jodelle Ferland, Harmony from Stargate Atlantis was in it.

At 60 minutes, there was a quick scene of Jodelle being scared, then at 100 min, she was running with Victoria's clan, then from 110 min there were scenes of her being scared and murdered and that was it.

They could have just got ANY actor to play scared kid. Jodelle's talents at being bad-ass and awesome were not used at all.

I am guessing that the book just said "And there was a scared kid in the background." rather than specifically saying "there was a scared kid played by an awesome actor." So there is a difference between Movie and Book.
11:37:43 AM Dec 17th 2012
Not really helping the case, that's just one example (and isn't even a trope). Yes, there are a few Film-specific and adaptation tropes in there, but Twilight's a really faithful adapatation.

Like I said, if the page becomes too big then it would be on the short-list of potential ways to split it, but otherwise it just seems unnecessary.
05:21:02 AM May 24th 2013
Jodelle is actually not very good with regular lines, just screaming and being scary. Her dialogue sounded very forced in Silent Hill, especially when she was Dark Alessa speaking to Rose.
10:12:46 AM Sep 5th 2012
edited by Psuliin
Has anyone considered Did Not Do The Research for this one? Meyer has said that she literally did NOT do the research on vampire lore, which has led to the many peculiar aspects of Twilight's vampires.
10:17:54 AM Sep 5th 2012
That's an index, not a trope. Find the appropriate Artistic License page.
01:03:32 PM Sep 5th 2012
She uses too many Artistic Licenses, so the index page isn't all that out of place. There should be something named Artistic License - Mythology. That would have fit.
01:32:59 PM Sep 5th 2012
Artistic License doesn't quite cover it, though. Like the header of that page says "Creators are allowed to be inaccurate if the inaccuracy serves the story better than accuracy would."

That implies something more deliberate, it seems to me. There are other cases where it's simply the result of carelessness or incompetence, and that seems to be what Did Not Do The Research is all about. And that's what happened with Meyer and Twilight.
02:36:45 AM Sep 6th 2012
Critical Research Failure, then?
07:46:56 AM Feb 25th 2013
In the end, it's just Our Vampires Are Different.
07:56:29 AM Feb 25th 2013
She didn't FAIL at doing research, she just didn't bother doing any. At least that's what she said.
11:48:39 PM Jul 6th 2012
edited by TairaMai
Did anyone consider that the film of these books broke both Doug Walker AND Spoony?

At least poor Spoony had alcohol.

In Spoony's video, Linkara is the only one non-plussed.
01:54:54 PM May 13th 2012
A new take on vampires can be found at the address provided for those who are so totally through with this series.
09:44:59 AM May 4th 2012
I am seeing a lot of need for cleanup from the YMMV page. Mostly stuff for tropes that are not YMMV tropes. I will try to fix it, but I may need help doing so.
09:49:43 AM May 4th 2012
And I found this as well. I don't think it belongs here:

09:54:35 AM May 4th 2012
edited by SamMax
I'm putting Non-YMMV Tropes if find on that area here. This post will be updated accordingly, and I will sort them out when I find the time. Feel free to help out. They are mostly out of order due other matters needing to be attended to:


  • I Knew It!: Before Breaking Dawn came out, enough fans were guessing that Edward and Bella would have a baby together that Stephenie Meyer felt the need to issue a statement that "vampires can't get pregnant" — figuring that most fans would either take it to mean that vampires are sterile (they're not — it's just that their bodies are unchanging, and the, er, "disfigurement" involved in carrying a baby to term could not occur) or assume that Edward wouldn't dare have sex with Bella before turning her (a logical enough conclusion, considering how worried he is about hurting her). Naturally, those who either read into it carefully or didn't get the message at all had the last laugh.

Tropes that should be on the main page

  • Insistent Terminology: They sure are pushing the Twilight Saga name, despite it being about as heroic or deep as a mud-puddle.
  • Fate Drives Us Together: The most often explanation given for why Edward and Bella fall in love so quickly and are so desperate to be together despite the seeming lack of an actual connection between them.
  • Single-Target Sexuality: Edward is completely Bella-sexual. The werewolves also become this after they imprint.
    • Jacob seemed Bella-sexual as well, before imprinting on Renesmee.
    • All the boys at the school seem Bella-sexual as well, that is until Bella tells them that they should go out with someone else.
      • Mike remains Bella-sexual even while dating someone else. Hell, he's still holding out for her during her wedding.
  • Babies Make Everything Better: After the birth of Bella and Edwards child all the loose ends of the story tie themselves up and all the problems get resolved without anyone really having to do anything. Everything Renesmee touches just seems to turn to gold.
    • This becomes painfully apparent when you factor in that the author has basically admitted that the character of Renesmee was created almost solely for the purpose of resolving the love triangle; basically just to eliminate the conflict between Edward and Jacob without taking Jacob away from Bella. Even that is somewhat screwed up, though, as the last chapter of the book teases at a future love traingle with Renesmee, Jacob, and Nahuel, which leaves Jacob in no better a position!
    • Like most things in the story, Renesmee's primary function seems to be ensuring that Bella will be able to have her cake and eat it too. She's able to have the prestige of being a mother, without actually having any of the work or hardship involved.
  • Cursed with Awesome: Really, if you think about it, this is the biggest problem with the story since the fact that the vampire characters are supposedly constantly struggling against their vampiric nature in order to maintain certain moral standards is meant to provide all of their dramatic weight. The Cullens (Edward in particular) act like they're so tortured and vampirism is a burden and warn Bella that she doesn't want to be a vampire for those reasons, but no matter how hard you look, there don't seem to be any negative consequences to being a vampire (not for the Cullens, anyway). The story itself even renders the claim that it's difficult to be a vampire completely hollow since Bella is never even the slightest bit reluctant to become a vampire, becomes a vampire in the end and loves it right from the start and never once regrets the decision. The fact that the transition from vampire to human doesn't seem at all difficult for Bella beyond the initial physical pain and life as a vampire is just as wonderful for her as she hoped it would be just makes Edward seem like a melodramatic, cry-baby for going on and on about how tortured he was. If the stories final outcome supports any conclusion, it's that being a vampire is the exact opposite of a burden, that it's in fact the solution to all of your problems. This nullifies all of the conflict in the story at least all of the non-love-triangle conflict and makes Bella's supposed selfless sacrifice of giving up her human life to be with the one she loves (which is meant to be the focal point and climax of the series) completely pointless. The author seems to enjoy draining all possible conflict and legitimate dramatic tension out of her own stories.

As well as Fridge. I thought those pages made it clear to not list them as tropes:

  • Fridge Horror:Renesmee's father can read her mind.
    • That's just getting started. More details can be found at the here.
  • Fridge Logic: Discussed thoroughly in the Twilight Headscratchers page.
  • Fridge Brilliance: Romeo and Juliet comparisons are appropriate because Romeo and Juliet were... well, idiots. Shakespeare's play never pretended otherwise.
    • On the flipside, Bella proves her own idiocy by comparing herself to Juliet and Edward to the moon, Jacob to the sun, because, well...
      "Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon,/Who is already sick and pale with grief"
      Act II, Scene II, Romeo and Juliet.
    • For the movies, three of the songs written especially for the soundtracks describe a really fucked up, mutually destructive relationship. Decode by Paramore has the last line of "This might kill me; want it to be true." Meet Me At The Equinox by Death Cab For Cutie is, well, typical DCFC fare and "Heavy In Your Arms" by Florence has "And he took me to the river, where he slowly let me drown." Stephanie Meyer might not see that she wrote an unhealthy relationship, but others sure do.

11:39:44 PM Jun 28th 2011
Really... we shouldn't talk about the hatedom in the main page, or accuse them of being a Hate Dumb. This page is for Twilight, not bashing people for not liking Twilight.
01:04:52 PM Jun 6th 2011
There is a massive Take That! section. None of them - none of them - come from the works itself.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this?

The way I see it, the main tropes list should contain tropes that are in the works, not what people have said about the works. They're perfectly acceptable examples (as far as I know, just by reading them), but they don't go there. If they go anywhere, they go on the Take That! page.
01:31:25 AM Apr 26th 2011
What about an "Its not rape" trope? After all, Bella blacked out in the middle of sex but Edward still kept screwing her unconscious body until he was finished. So pretty much he raped her. And yet this series makes it seem perfectly fine to have sex with an unconscious person.
06:41:25 AM Apr 26th 2011
There are a lot of things about "modern" literature that might not click with us olde fans of logic. I don't enjoy it either, although I have never directly read most of the last book or the third one for that matter.

But do explain to me: what is the core plot of Twilight? You know, like Harry Potter's core plot is the rise and subsequent fall of Voldemort. I can't seem to find one...
07:55:31 AM Apr 26th 2011
Not that I'm one to defend the series, but from your description, Bella did give consent to having sex with Edward, and he just continued when she passed out. If she gave consent, it's not rape. It's probably dangerous to literally fuck someone till they pass out, but that's another discussion entirely.
07:49:23 PM May 1st 2011
edited by AgentDragonhunter
I wouldn't put it on there. Most people would just complain for implying ANYTHING bad about the series on the main page, and accuse you of being a rabid, raging hater. *Is looking at the YMMV tab*

Also, it was a fade-to-black scene, so we don't know that she gave consent. You'd think it was mentioned if she did.
03:44:28 PM Jul 5th 2013
The "plot" of Twilight is Bella falling in love with Edward, which happens fairly quickly… or maybe it's just Edward trying to talk Bella out of falling for him. There is a subplot about weather.
04:48:44 AM Apr 9th 2011
It's mentioned a few times in the article that Pattinson and stewart are just in it for the money, so on, so fourth - can someone provide links to where they've said this? Not out of any desire to have the claims sourced - though of course, putting them in there wouldn't hurt - but mostly out of curiosity of the whole culture surrounding this bizarre culture.
07:58:43 PM Mar 26th 2011
Why were all the examples deleted? A reason for doing so was never given.
12:43:27 PM Mar 27th 2011
I think there was a glitch when someone edited it. I put them back in.
03:50:56 PM Feb 4th 2011
For reasons utterly beyond my comprehension, I just spent some time moving the YMMV and Trivia examples to their proper places. Just for anyone who wants to know what I was deleting all those examples for.
10:31:20 PM Feb 23rd 2011
^^;; I... kind of think it's a shame to delete any example unless it's offensive or grossly out of place, especially because real people put time and effort into them.

Honestly, though, I have no idea why people keep slapping 'YMMV' markers on every other example — tropes are subjective by nature. Of course people are going to disagree on everything... why keep wasting space pointing that out?
12:10:44 AM Mar 3rd 2011
edited by Anaheyla
You'd have to ask FastEddie and the rest of the people in charge. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.
08:36:53 PM Nov 9th 2010
Has this page really never been locked? Not that it has to.
04:51:01 AM Oct 9th 2010
I decided to run Edward through the Universal Mary Sue Litmus Test and he came back with a score of 88. I'm afraid to run Bella. She might break it.
07:15:56 AM Jan 18th 2011
I got 119 for Bella. :D
04:33:07 PM Oct 8th 2010
edited by Arehtia
OKAY SO APPARENTLY, Twihards are getting violent. The point behind this, could someone tell me?
07:46:03 PM May 1st 2011
People post these on forums, and most of them aren't true. But some people have provided physical evidence of attacks.
07:03:29 AM Sep 17th 2010
Why are James and the Volturi listed as Wacky Wayside Tribes? The series is primarily about the romance, such as it is, but when one constitutes the climax of the first book and the other is the driving force behind three of them... why are they described as one-off "side" things?
04:42:38 PM Sep 9th 2010
"You Fail at EVERYTHING"

Could someone please elaborate? I mean, really, it's just up there without any actual explanation ...
11:18:35 PM Jun 14th 2010
edited by Jumpingzombie
Did some editing to take out the natter and I tried tone down the examples. While I'm not a fan, there are people who like the series; I think it's only fair the article remain more neutral. If you want a place to complain take it to the forums, discuss, etc. not the main page.
02:12:26 PM Apr 5th 2010
Is it extremly skivish to rec your own fanfic for twilight?
03:02:51 PM Apr 5th 2010
03:37:36 PM Aug 1st 2011
What about putting it on the So Bad It's Good page?

02:16:15 PM Mar 13th 2010
edited by Cambdoranononononono
I'm pulling this part of the First Girl Wins trope for now for Justifying Edit reasons, and because I don't know the work well enough to make the necessary changes myself. If it's a "subversion" for both, then it's probably just Last Girl Wins. However, note that "first girl" is determined by the character's introduction in the story, not the chronological point where they meet the character. (Hence, Unlucky Childhood Friend and First Girl Wins are not mutually exclusive.)
  • It's actually a subversion in both. Bella met Jacob a long time before she met Edward when they were much younger and she visited her dad more often, due to Billy and Charlie being close friends.
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