Discussion FanficRecs / Naruto

Speaking as someone who tried on a friend’s recommendation and hasn’t much liked it, I think that thinking of it as fanfiction is definitely the best way of thinking about it, although obviously from that description I would not put it here simply because his good ideas die in execution and he has plenty of bad ones.

I agree with this suggestion, but I'm not sure how to go about implementing it.

Right now, I'd just suggest sticking them all in the General fic, while having "Self-Insert" as one of the tags or in the summary.

You can message a moderator on if this is possible or if they can code a self-insert page. Note, however, that there are more than a million of these self-insert fics, so if Naruto has a page, then likewise, there will have to be a page for each and every single genre of fiction.

One question - What's With all the Random Capitalisation?

To Place Emphasis on Particular Words, They Look Nicer (IMO) and Force of Habit.

If it's meshing two different Universes together, then it's a Crossover. If it's picking and choosing certain people from universes, then it depends on the case. Por Ejemplo, Naruto in the bleach-verse is a crossover, but Naruto in the Naruto-verse with a smattering of bleach characters introduced, yet not really the driving plot point can be debated. It has to do with who is the antagonist(s), and where the greatest emphasis is placed on which "verse."

Another example is the labeling in fanfiction, on whether to put something as a Naruto/Bleach crossover, or a Bleach/Naruto crossover. Like the whole "Naruto/Sauske" Yaoi Shipping War, there is a distinction.

On the matter of parings, I think you're confusing Parings with Ships. A paring is essentially any two characters in a story/fic that are focused on the most. Parings can be Ships if it gets romantic or steamy. According to your examples, all three can be parings.

Why not just put up your own reviews for his stories in the appropriate sections?

True. It'd offer a nice secondary opinion I guess. And if we can have Chuunin Exam Day in the Recommendations, I suppose leaving it there, but with a review of how Your Mileage May Vary his work is can satiate me. Thank you for the idea.

(moved my post from the main rec page to discussion page) "I enjoy Snake because sometimes, it's just fun to read a totally Boring Invincible Hero story every now and again. Its enjoyable to read a story where you don't have to worry about characterization, and character flaws, and stuff that makes other stories truly excellent in their own rights. Sometimes, it's just fun to read a story where you can laugh, and indulge your own secret desires to be like a fictional character. As for the relationship creepiness, as long as the reader understands its fiction (and obviously not socially acceptable), it can be taken in stride. I didn't recommend Snake because I thought he was an excellent and deeply engaging writer, I rec'ed him because out of all the wish-fulfillment authors I've read stories from, Snake is the most humorous and over-the-top. So, if you're looking for a deeply moving and gripping masterpiece, don't read Snake's stuff. If you're looking for something to read because you're in the middle of raging about how Kishi is ruining the story, sure, have a look."

So, yeah. I definitely acknowledge he's not a great writer, but i figure he deserves a reccomendation for two reasons:

A) As stated, if something like CED can make it in, so can Vf Snake. B) Related to A), IMHO Snake's writing comes across as a more exaggertaed (in a good way) version of Lionheart/Skysaber. Snake himself seems to realize this, he's replied to reviews stating he knows his stuff is "bad writing" but just doesn't care because for him its fun to write a character who in his opinion has gotten short-shafted as overpowered. Personally, I feel that Snake is a superior writer to Lionheart, if only because Snake realizes his stuff isn't going to win any awards at all. Compare Lionheart's epic rants against even constructive criticism.

Tl:dr: Snake's stuff is fun to read assuming you are willing to forget aout seriousness and just roll with the flow. just my opinion, though.

You could have easily put this on the split page's discussion page by clicking discuss at the top of the page you know that right?

um no, I didn't. I'm new here, so I'll remember that in future. thanks!

I'll be honest, if it were my review section, neither of those entries would be here. I enjoy a good laugh now and then, but the Fanfic Rec page insinuates "decent writing" - the 10 percent worth fighting for. I can tolerate a non-serious story, or even a subpar one, but VF Snake and authors like him seem to write with the pure intention of vitriol. It's not about having a laugh, it's about CHEWING OUT characters they dislike. His writing style is incredibly obnoxious, uninspired, repetitive, and gratuitously obscene.

But it's not my review board. That said, I dislike this author with almost every fiber of my being, and it annoys me that there are some really great stories out there that get 5-10 reviews a month when guys like this can make a name for themselves by writing stories that focus solely on character bashing and wish fulfillment, and have 500 reviews minimum per story. If he even wrote ONE story that wasn't utter vitriol, I could sympathize with you, but I can't. This guy is awful, and he knows it, he relishes in it. He's the fan fiction equivalent of a 'shock jock', but if you read the reviews on his fics you'd think he was a passable, nuanced writer.

He can write better, he has 'some' good ideas, and he doesn't want to.

Then what's the problem? Do you just not know how?

Yeah mostly because I am pretty much incompetent when it comes to formatting things and would rather not horrendously butcher the process.

Try the forums. In addition, posting your own recs on this page and linking reviews of fics that are already here always helps.

Multiple opinions are good. We like multiple opinions.

Awesome, thank you Iaculus! I will check out the forums. Feel free to have a look and let me know what you think! http://tschatterfox.wordpress.com/category/series/tdrl/

— jagter se maan

I should probably mention that by 'link reviews' I mean 'click on the Add Review button below a rec (or add one if one isn't there already) and type in your opinions on a fic'. The more of those we have, the better.

Nope; provided it doesn't break the Content Policy and isn't a fanfic you wrote, you can recommend anything you like, whether it has 1 or 10 or 100 reviews.

Thank you for the answer. That is very reassuring.

Probably to give them a better sorting, really. It looks better, in a manner of speaking. Less preferential, especially when the lists grow beyond expectations.

For anyone who wants to see if there's new ones, they can always keep tabs on "History", or just go through the list once again.

Weirdly enough, I don't think this page ever had a specific shipping section. The shipfics are pretty evenly spread out amongst the other categories.

The biggest problem is that the system described in the author's notes is not the same as what appears in the story. We're told "Oh, these guys are solid in the basics, but rarely make the higher ranks" only to have not have the distinction maintained in-story. The end result is that it seems like the author decided "Well, I want to do X, Y and Z" and came up with the setting to justify it afterwards. And it shows.

It depends. Are the characters from one fanfic in particular are various fanfics?

It's probably be easier to make a fanfic page of the fanfic in question and then make a character page there. Especially if they're not seen in multiple fanfics that have been recommended.

Complaining about people complaining about shows you like is a trope right?

It sure seems to apply here.

It's not a complaint, it's a rebuttal that would've gone on the main page if I hadn't had so much to say. We ARE still allowed to have conflicting opinions, right?

@Anonguy: The trope you're thinking of is Complaining About People Not Liking the Show

@Cormartemis

Your entire rebuttal is, "Oh yeah? Well I liked it so there!"

That's complaining.

BTW, if we're allowed differing opinions and all, you accusing him of not reading it smacks of The Complainer Is Always Wrong

My rebuttal is "All your complaints are bogus and taken out of context, here's why." I know the sort of fics Australian is comparing the fic to (got one or two on my favorites list as a matter of fact) and they're on completely opposite ends of the quality scale; in fact if I didn't know otherwise I'd say Team 8 is the fic that all the others are ripping off with all those "cliches" Australian listed. It's a question of being a Cliché Storm or being Troperrific... which, now that I think of it in those terms, isn't such a huge deal after all.

Regardless, that post wasn't supposed to be a conversation starter, just an addendum; either drop the subject or continue talking to yourself, I'm done here.

Man, you so totally mad and I didn't even style on you.

PS. If it wasn't meant to be a conversation started, you shouldn't say it at all.

PPS. Nice job taking the high road when you admit to being butthurt. WTG d00d.

So, I just found out that my review sparked Comatemis' rather heated reply. I'm not interested in getting into an argument, so if it's cool with everyone I'm probably just going to make my case for my review and walk away. Firstly, yes, I read the fic. Having an opinion of a story that differs from someone else's does not mean that I haven't read it. It's remarkably conceited to believe that anyone who doesn't share your opinion must be unfamiliar with the subject matter. That said, lets begin...

The typical Naruto fashion makeover is a point I generally find annoying, but seeing as it happens in so many fics it's not a dealbreaker for me. I was merely using it as an example of something off the top of my head I didn't like about the story (I wasn't going to list everything I disagreed with in a review a couple lines long). The reason why is simple: the colour of a Ninja's attire in the Naruto-verse is no big deal as far as staying hidden in the field goes. Ninja can sense each others' Chakra signatures from way off, use a simple transformation jutsu or any number of advanced genjutsu to help hide themselves. Orange clothes are difficult to camoflauge, but so is Naruto's blonde hair, Sakura's pink hair, Sakura's red dress, etc. The Ninja world are quite able to compensate for their fashion choices in combat (to a degree, at least), otherwise people would wear something other than sandals while running around treetops. At the end of the day, if Naruto likes orange clothes (shown by the fact he's still wearing them after the timeskip), he'd keep them, anything else is just the author trying to make him cooler (or worse, forcing their own personality on the canon protagonist so that they can disguise a self-insert fic). I'm tired of reading an author's handwave about the orange jumpsuit being the only thing he can buy.

My complaint about the Gai/Weights/Taijutsu path is that it happens so often. If Naruto currently lacks Chakra control, why doesn't Kurenai give Naruto some training in that area, so that she becomes able to help her student advance on her own without needing to contact another Jounin-sensei who has his own team to worry about? She's supposed to be a teacher, not a guidance counselor, and if Konoha's resident Genjutsu expert is unable to help her student overcome his Chakra control problems no one can.

The explanation 'Kyuubi's demonic Chakra just destroyed the seal' is something I found annoying, plain and simple. It doesn't matter to me how good the author's grammar is or how many fans they have - an Ass Pull is an Ass Pull.

I agree, Naruto would clearly win in such a situation, but one punch? Without at least providing enough detail to make it clear Naruto moved fast and put all of his power into it? I have a hard time believing that the Sharingan, coupled with Sasuke's natural talent would not allow him to deal with an enemy genin's very first attack. Especially considering that by deliberately goading Naruto, Sasuke would have known that he was precipitating a violent response.

I disagree. The Hyuuga clan leaders and village council are portrayed as Stupid Evil, and there is no justification the author has shown in any of the 20 chapters written to-date that changes that for me. No fan, no matter how impassioned, can convince me otherwise.

You're allowed your opinion, but so am I. My review was intended to provide some much needed contrast to the flood of praise, to show that not everyone loved it and that it isn't without errors of its own. I sincerely feel all of my points are legitimate concerns for a reader who is looking for something different. To give a couple examples, I would recommend any interested reader to take a look at Scorpion's Disciple by nobody102, The Ghost and the Darkness by Kirsdarkenvar or Houses of the Holy by Howdyu (though the latter appears to be a dead fic). Note: each of my recommendations have errors of their own and I readily admit that. I have yet to encounter a perfect fic, but I personally enjoyed those three more than I did Team 8. It may be that I am being too critical, I get a lot of that, but the point of any review is to provide an accurate description of your views on the matter. I'm not going to hold my tongue just because there are people who disagree with me.

Edit: Perhaps you might find it easier if I listed a couple things I like about Team 8? For the record, I liked the plot point that Haku survived and was brought back to Konoha despite Naruto having nothing to do with it. I liked that Team 8 didn't end up getting the mission to wave country 'just because', as many other stories have it. I liked Naruto's solution to the Chunin written exam. I liked the verbal clash with the Rock-nin in chapter 7 finishing with Naruto being mistaken for Minato (Though I did find it a pretty glaring plothole that they wouldn't have heard that he's been dead... for 11 years. How old are their damn Bingo books?). And lastly I liked that in Chapter 20, the author wasn't afraid to induce a shocking WHAM episode by killing Kurenai. All the same, I've read many fics I enjoyed more.

I love team 8. that said, I agree with bored australian about the clothing detail. Naruto likes orange, and he jumpsuit isn't that bad. Naruto's power ups are not insane like they are in many fics.

I'll admit I really enjoy Team 8. However, the story itself is not flawless, I have to admit.

1. The "cooler clothes" point Australian brings up is valid. Naruto likes orange. That's why he wears it. Not because shopkeepers won't sell him anything else (and even if they didn't, Konoha must have some form of Goodwill. Surely Naruto could've gotten his hands on something else)

2. I understand the Sasuke Naruto fight. I do. Sasuke was exhausted, unable to use his Sharingan, and overconfident. Naruto used Kyuubi chakra. At the same time...it feels...annoying. Almost like a cop out.

3. The council...of DOOM

4. Naruto destroying Neji's seal was...cool. But I don't quite understand it. The caged bird seal is like a bomb - randomly throwing energy at it is more likely to make it explode than diffuse it. At the very least, we could've seen more of Naruto studying seals in between the 2nd and third tests.

While I like Team 8 and disagree with BoredAustralian on most his points, I have to chime in with a "Hear, hear!" in response to his comment on the orange jumpsuit. It has no negative effect in the canon universe (which is a shonen action hero story, not a seinen realistic ninja drama), and it's usually flashing, klaxon-blaring warning sign #1 that the author is in the process of creating a Posession Sue.

That said, I don't think that's what S'Tar'kan actually did here, but it's a major pet peeve for this reader as well.

It should be noted that I am by no means saying that Team 8 is a bad fic, just one that I didn't enjoy personally. When I read a For Want Of A Nail fanfic, I usually want to see the protagonist with a similar personality (or if changes are made, they must be justified and believable) but different abilities or goals. Team 8 is well-written and edited, which is to its credit, but it mainly walks along all-too-familiar ground and seems reluctant to make any changes which might diverge too far from the over-reaching plot of the canon story.

If readers are looking for a story in which Naruto's growth occurs a touch more drastically, and more interestingly (or at least, differently) then I would suggest passing it over. If, however, you're interested in stories which follow the canon of Naruto but with several rearrangements in character relations, by all means I reccommend Team 8.

That's probably because it is several years old and most of it's plot has become overused know days.

Honestly, despite being a major fan of Team 8, I have to agree on almost all points. At times it comes off as shallow. I have a number of minor gripes that tend to just be personal pet peeves about the nature of learning jutsu and elemental affinities, and other minor story holes I dislike. I also am extremely put off by the Stupid Evil Hyuuga, but that's just because I saw no evidence to see them as evil, just sort of a harsh asshole to his daughter who, legitimately, was pretty bad. Excuses him? No, but he's not quite a Gendo or worse. Though a Gendo Hiashi would be a particularly interesting set up.

Now, to the point, I think that the major issue is that the author tries to compress time to much and as a result what could be a very deep story often comes off as shallow and forced. I don't see it as better then canon. Not bad, but not better then canon. Is it among the better fics I've read? Of course. But I actually prefer the author's other Naruto story, Out of Darkness, more than Team 8 because of it's unique feel, while many of the tropes and cliches that Team 8 has do seem tired and worn out.

In short, recommend it, but don't give it quite the unlimited rave reviews others do.

Interesting material here, much of which I would recommend to the curious; 'Nin Tech' being the most recent of the batch.

Speaking of which, Magic A Is Magic A violated, REPEATEDLY. Then again, probably this fic has DIFFERENT law in the first place. In canon, Jounins can learn as much as two or three elements during their lifetime career (most genin started their career at 9-12 years). In this fic, That one multiplied with Up To Eleven and Over Nine Thousand, with basic elemental Jutsu can be conquered by practically everyone with several weeks (or days, if you're talented or trying enough), we haven't seen any advanced elemental jutsu training however, so, I assume learning something like Raikiri/Chidori would likely required a long time to do.

All of the arguments above, I totally agree, especially One-Hit KO Sasuke just....Wall Banger-rific. Regarding seal-break, that's one hell of an Ass Pull either. However, nobody is perfect in this story, even Naruto is far from being Marty Stu, and Kurenai, who everyone expect will develop into a Mary Sue (and variants) is NOT, and having Hidden Depths on her own.

Overall, I STILL enjoy the story and waiting for the latest chapter.

Now I haven't read the story recently so I may be wrong, but before Narutos' fight with Neji, wasn't he training with Jiraiya? I'm sure you guys know him, the sannin who is really, really good at SEALING jutsus? I'd say that Naruto has been angry at Neji for a while after he hurt Hinata, Jiraiya probably caught wind of it and could have taught Naruto a way to destroy the seal, although it would have been taught off-screen, so I can understand where people see an Ass Pull.

On the One-Hit KO Sasuke part, Sasuke was hampered by having Orochimarus' seal removed, Naruto was just recently pissed off because of what Neji did, Sasuke just pissed him off more, and Naruto probably used a healthy dose of Kyuubi chakra. Sasuke was pretty much at half power, while Naruto was at 100% and had some rage brewing to hit harder.

Just my two cents, make of it what you will.

The elemental chakra point annoys me too, but most of the other points don't. The Hyuuga being evil is due to the as-yet-unrevealed true divergence point, and the Council's evilness was shown in canon when they ordered Itachi to massacre his clan.

Really? Do we need a whole new folder for some guy's crack fan fiction? Is Wreak Fic a valid genre?

It's got a trope, but if it looks better, we'll file it elsewhere and just use the term to describe it. Right now... yeah, it does look sorta odd sitting there by itself. So we either need to slide more in there, or move it and destroy the folder. My lumper side is in charge today, so we'll do the latter.

There is no "council" in canon, just the advisers, which is not the same thing as the fanon council used in Team 8. Sorry to derail, but that's a major pet peeve of mine in fanfic.

What Alfric said. Plus, in a narrative sense, it was a brilliant move, IMHO. An author sometimes has to reward the expectations of his readers/audience, and sometimes has to play with them in order to catch them by surprise with an unexpected twist... such as in the case of Naruto vs Sasuke. Of course, it doesn't always work, but this isn't such a case as far as I'm concerned.

And about the Council... was the Council of Doom trope present in Naruto fics before Team 8 appeared, or did this fic popularize it among the fandom?

I really enjoyed Team 8, but agree with most (if not all) of the complaints about it, especially the clothing issue and violation of Magic A is Magic A. Another thing that peeves me is that most elements in the story are shining examples of Fanon (Hanabi's attitude, the Council, etc). That said, it has plenty of charm and is highly enjoyable.

First, you're using the name of the god of Kobolds as a pen name. Nice.

Second, having yet to read the fic itself I can't argue, but if 17th_Immortal's description of it is accurate, I would argue that Super Powered Evil Side is inaccurate, because it typically represents a stand alone personality. If Naruto acts and behaves VERY different from normal, it's SPES. If not, it's WGPCGI.

The borderline between SES and WGPCGI is pretty thin at times, but I don't think the distinction between the tropes is about the SES being a "stand alone" personality so much as it being that evil/madness comes when using the power instead of all the time. You power up, you turn evil.

When it comes to fictional MPD, though just how "stand alone" another personality really is is hard to say. Take Ichigo and his Hollow side in Bleach, for example. It's just another part of him.

(Thanks for the complement on the nick.)

A Skysaber tribute band? Note that my only evidence from saying this is my own hunch after reading the fic in question, but . . . are you sure he's -not- Skysaber? Because he writes -suspiciously- like him. Right down to little things - like opinions on counterarguments. Seriously, is there anything that doesn't mesh?

It's been debated pretty heavily on the Drunkard's Walk forums (disclaimer: I haven't been there for a while). The differences are minor — possibly fabricated, yes — but there. Lionheart doesn't yammer on about religion like Skysaber does, and I don't think Skysaber has Lionheart's preoccupation with castration and fecal matter. (The significance of Skysaber not being one of Lionheart's 14 Favorite Authors, but Lionheart being one of Skysaber's four, is left as an exercise for the audience.) I asked him point-blank in a PM once; he didn't respond.

Hmm. What sort of differences? I mean the writing and the gradual evolution of the stories seems to be pretty much on the ball . . . the religion thang I figured would actually be -why- the sockpuppet; a decent chunk of his hatemail comes from his religious craziness. And the castration and fecal matter . . . well, Saber's always been a bit unhinged. I don't think it's out of pattern for him to go down that sort of path in character bashing.

Man, I still remember that guy's rant about how dividing by zero proved that our mathematical system was bunk.

Still, I guess it's sort of pointless frippery, it's not something worth really arguing about and it's sure not worth rereading their fics looking for style parallels. :D But it is interesting . . .

Like I said, possibly fabricated — it is conceivable that he made a new sockpuppet and tried to change a few minor things to deflect suspicion. Skysaber is, however, still posting to his own account. Jury's out, I suppose.

(I've only read a little of his stuff — none of the really juicy rants. :D I've pretty much skimmed past anything that looked like one. You have a link to the division-by-zero thing?)

look as I said it isnt the best work but you really cant ingnore its impact on the naruto fanfiction world. Im not saying its good it really isnt but like a train wreak you really cant ignore it

I think the fic is popular because, once upon a time, it was interesting. Just like Partially Kissed Hero was, at one point in the distant distant past, interesting.

The problem with Lionheart is at some point he seems to have acquired catastrophic brain damage. Or possible swapped his writing ability with Terry Goodkind. His fics have gotten marginally better in the last few chapters, but he spent so long standing on a soap box and ranting about random things that it's just not worth reading, even if you can get through his Hatred of the Authors, despite said hatred stemming almost entirely from stupid fanon stereotypes.

The juicy rants that predominantly spring to mind were the evolution and the "What is division?"

There was a lot of disagreement (and dare I say, insults) thrown and he deleted his ffnet account. But from -memory- both were in Otaku Reflected somewhere?

Still, interestingly, a brief googling seems to imply that the relevant rants no longer exist on the internet. Heeee. But if you're okay with trying to reconstruct the division rant from an MST, google "make blood vomit from my eye sockets"

Nitpicking — the author of that spork seems to have confused 10^(-100,000) with 10^-5 (i.e., 1/(100,000). A hundred thousand subtractions of the former number would still only amount to subtracting 10^(-99,995). This, of course, does not change the sporker's point in the slightest.

Back from digression.

IMHO, this fic is still worth listing because it is, at least initially, pretty interesting. Speculation on the ninja world - about techniques, crafts, how ninja villages work - there are some interesting things to think about if you're interested.

Of course, obscene mutilation of characters (figuratively and otherwise), only decent writing skills, and a lack of any plot focus makes this a really, really terrible story, if you're trying to think of it as a story. Even when trying not to take anything character related seriously, it's hard for me to stomach the frankly disgusting character bashing. (Poo-wielders? Seriously?)

My point: this has the potential to present some interesting discourse on things related to the world, not the characters or plot. Therefore, I believe it should be put on the Rec list with extreme warnings.

The thing about all of his big stories is that I really love using them for reference material. Interesting reference material, owing to the fact that I can't read non-fiction without getting bored. The material is very, very interesting, and quite well-thought-out. Too bad everything else is a little lacking.

I did enjoy the first half of CED, though — and I'll give you my reasoning. The first few chapters were sadistic and yikes, but somewhere near the start, when Naruto started learning skill after skill after skill, it got pretty good. For me, because it was a combination of the DIY aspect of certain series (like Kildar, cough), Naruto fixing/getting revenge on the people that pissed him off, and...learning skill after skill after skill. It takes a specific taste, I think.

I did enjoy it. It did get worse towards the end, but nowhere /nearly/ as bad as the chapters that Partially Kissed Hero is turning out right now.

As of the latest chapter, I feel that maybe the guy has gone over the top, even for a Kakashi basher, with what he's done to Kakashi. To summarise, one of the resets has an Obito memory scold Kakashi for what he's done, promting Kakashi to give all his jutsu and summoning scrolls to Naruto. You'd think it would stop there.

Then on the final reset, not only do they bring Kakashi's dad back to the dead who then starts tearing Kakashi down for what he's done, but reveals that on some resets they had brought Obito back (Impure Ressurection style) and done the same thing, and are planning on bringing back the REAL DEAL of both Obito and Rin for this purpose. Is it possible for authors to cross Moral Event Horizons?

He's not as bad with Sarutobi however, while he has pointed out the flaws Naruto has only done so because he thought Sarutobi wouldn't remember, through a reset.

For completness I'm making a post about why some people enjoy this fic. First, it's a lot more enjoyable if you it treat as a Crack Fic. The Willing Suspension of Disbelief does relieve a bunch of problems, like Kazekage Tsunade or grand marriage Naruto or the Squick factor and The Flanderization. Also the infinite resets (for the most part) mean all the torture and pain never stick. So it becomes more a case of Karmic Retribution against a bunch of butt monkeys than repeatedly Raping The Dog and Kicking The Dog). (On a side note, I've sometimes wondered if each reset actually splits off an alternate timeline/dimension.) Then there's the way Perfect Lionheart keeps thinking up something new and interesting, like Naruto taking up painting, or remodeling. Or the new uses for the for the various skills. Also there are so many lines that are Crowning Momentof Funny. Like Hiruzen's suspicion of his paperwork spying on him, Orochimaru's feminine side demanding he kidnap Naruto after a wedding party, or the great dance off. Also, several of the gimmicks are copied from the Groundhog Day movie. L Ike learning the right lines or leanring a new skill. So there is a lot that can be enjoyed in this fic, if you let it.

And I'm posting a counter-argument. Nugar on TFF has much to say about Perfect Lionheart, as well as most of the above "justifications". Behold.

Although that rant raises many solid points, I feel it's only fair to mention that the author in question was high as a kite when he wrote it, and later deeply regretted posting it.

laculus: The only valid point you made was that the rant raised valid points. What Nugar was doing at the time or what he felt afterward is not logically connected to the actual content. Intent doesn't matter— only content. Just saying.

When even the presenter of an argument has doubts about its validity, though, it's generally time to start scrutinising the content with a keener eye. Distorted thinking (i.e., as a result of being high as the aforementioned recreational, unmanned tethered aircraft) can easily lead to distorted conclusions, even if the result looks outwardly plausible.

My comment wasn't intended to invalidate Nugar's comments, but simply to slap a big 'handle with care' warning on them.

Here's the context of the rant. TL;DR, those quoted comments were made while sober.

Nugar got high as a kite one weekend, thanks to some bad medicine. This had predictable results with regards to his posting. In one of his posts while he was high he said that PL was outright evil.

The next morning, he's come down, finds and deletes most of the posts he made while high. He also notices several people asking about why he thought PL was evil. Thus, the rant. He wrote it up and posted it sober.

• ahem*

Another troper removed the story; Tuddrussell put it back. I'd like to ask that if anyone sees it come back again they remove it.

Or am I being too hard nosed about this?

I at least agree with you, it's not the whore your fic out page after all.

Anewbis, the problem's been cleared up.

Tuddrussell posted two fics: his own, Will of the Oath Breaker (which he claims to have been a mistake, and I see no reason to doubt that), and someone else's, Soul of the Seal. Comartemis removed both. Tuddrussell re-added the latter, but not the former, with the stated reason "Was erroneously deleted." Watashiwa removed Soul of the Seal (the one that wasn't his) again, claiming that it was his. Tuddrussell put it back, clarifying the confusion in the "reason:" field.

Any questions?

I reccommend linking to toper works on the main page, and/or clarifing further on this line: "Feel free to add a fanfic of your own to the list, but remember to use the template found here."

The only reason I was trying to put my fic in troper works at all, was because I found that page first... But it was really early in the morning, and I had a lot of tabs up at the time. Lost track.

Erk, my bad. Sorry about that. -__-;;

Tuddrussell, I know the page you're talking about, but most Tropers see recommending your own fics as an act of hubris. It isn't against the rules, but it is bad taste. Post your story in your personal profile, and develop a forum presence here. That should get your story read.