Discussion Characters / Degrassi

For me Drew is neither clearly defined as a hero or villain. However because of that I feel it's wrong to attribute to much heroism to his acts(fighting Fitz and Owen on Adam's behalf) or demonize him for his more questionable acts(cheating,lying,blackmail,and being nonsupporting of Adam on two occasions-one while suffering symptoms of PTSD). I feel the YMMV tag is a valid use on Drew considering how polarizing his character can be.

After all this is a character who threatened to break-up with Katie if she continued to be friends with Marisol(a girl he clearly disliked from their previous dating history,"boring" I believe he called her). The fact that he receded this ultimatum doesn't negate the fact that he made it in the first place.

The fact that Drew "stepped aside" to allow Adam and Fiona to be together is admirable, but not when it is considered that Drew cheated on Alli with the girl who 'outed' his step-brother and resumed a relationship with said girl(Bianca) even before Bianca ever apologized or tried to make amends with Adam. It should also be pointed out that Drew began his relationship with Bianca only because no other girl at Degrassi was willing to date him. Drew was also shown to be "friendly" with Owen, Owen who some say tried to rape Alli in the boiler room(up for debate), propositioned Alli for sex(no dispute there) and who threw his brother into a glass door. Threw his step brother into a glass door, think about that statement for anyone with siblings who they actually care for.

After that incident, Drew and Owen become "fight club" buddies with nary a word about it, or the hazing Owen gave Drew. True that hazing was in part instigated by Riley, but only after Drew threatened to "out" Riley. Although Drew did not go through with that plan he certainly seemed to have every intention to do so and as we have witnessed in real life, such actions have lead(at least in part) to the deaths of the outed victim. A character who's own brother was in closet as trans had no compunction about doing to Riley what was essentially done to Adam.

I can fully admit that Drew may love his step brother, however for the character that seems to mean very little as he is selfishly motivated 90% of the time and has been portrayed to have no problem going over,around or through anyone including his loved ones if it suits his purpose.

In closing I would just like to say that this is Degrassi,lot's of characters have been shown behaving badly. Many of them 'reformed' but no one denies the bitchy/sleazy behavior from their past. Emma is tagged as a Jerkass even though she is supposed to be the series heroine, and no one seems to have a problem with that. Truth be told Emma has a lot of Jerkass/Bitchy moments.

I do not believe that I am unfairly vilifying Drew simply by pointing out that Adam being his brother doesn't guarantee that he wouldn't screw him over at the drop of a hat if the mood struck, considering that type of behavior is very in character for Drew, as opposed to say Simon Tam who's devotion to his sister River Tam is clearly defined and established by the writers of Firefly. The Degrassi writers have yet to make any sort of distinction of that nature in Drew/Adam relationship, if fact they only have 'selective' interaction at best.

The verbage I had a problem with that on the Jerk with a Heart of Gold YMMV part next to how he relates to Adam and I thought that was unfairly placed in, as if the character is a true villain when this is a character that has done good things.

So I think we can reinstate Jerk Jock/Jerk with a Heart of Gold without any problems, thoughts?

The character may have done good things, but he has also behaved selfishly and has only shown Adam the bare minimum of affection.

As I said, the show usually tends to separate them and the fact that Owen and Bianca both BULLIED Adam and Drew had no problem socializing with either of them without requiring ANY sort of apology is very suspect to me. If you truly believe that Drew is a "JWAHOG" then you should(in the interest of fairness) leave the YMMV(since this is exactly the type of purpose the tag was invented for) as is. After all it did say "some people think". I don't see how that is an unfair indictment of the character when it is often the case that many Degrassi fans dislike Drew and view him as a great big jerk-ass. That may not be a fact but it is certainly a valid opinion considering his actions on the show.

Perhaps your interest in defending Drew comes from the fact that he may be a favorite of yours, and you may not be able to be objective about how he is viewed. As I said before, every character on the show has done questionable things and the case can be made for many of them having a Jerk-ass label for a specific action or crime. I just don't understand how you can think Drew getting beat up over Adam excuses everything else he has done and makes him a hero,which is the impression I get from how you seem to absolve him of the bad things he has done. The good things he has done that you talk about do exist, but that doesn't mean the bad things he has done have simply vanished. Especially since he has not apologized for many of them, or tried to make amends.

Yes he may have done "good" things as you say, but he has also done many bad things too. The jury should still be out on whether he is hero or villain, so I don't see why it's necessary to sweep his misdeeds under a rug and pretend they didn't happen. The current writers may want that to happen, but most fans are far to observant to simply "buy" Drew as a heroic male lead, when he is clearly not.

Mega J and Pocksuppet1. I really would like to work with both of you to improve this page, I'm still fairly new but I am open to discussion(duh, it's why I'm here) but it seems a little one-sided and I'm not sure why. I know you disagree with many of my opinions but are you at least willing to talk about it, in an open honest and public dialogue? This page should be open to all Degrassi fans and opinions. Needless to say we won't all agree 100% of the time but if we could have majority it would make things nicer for everyone.

I understand you didn't like my edit of Character shilling and have removed it, I stand by that edit and the Moderator's opinion however there are many edits that can be disputed.

For example, Drew has Knight Templar Big Brother as a tag. From the definition of the trope it says:

—"Or do you go after the offender, the offender's friends, anyone connected to the offender, as well as anyone who even looks like they could be an offender sometime in the indeterminate future and decapitate them all?

If you are the latter, then congratulations! You are a Knight Templar Big Brother. The Knight Templar Big Brother is what happens when the Big Brother takes the Big Brother Instinct to the extreme. They don't just protect the younger sibling, they absolutely destroy anyone who'd so much as even look at them wrong."—-

Does Drew fighting Fitz ONE time really make this apply to Drew? When he became friends with Bianca and Owen,before they apologized for their involvement. How about when Dave called Adam a Tranny on the air? What was Drew's reaction to that? He didn't have one and that's my point, I can't see that as an accurate definition of Drew based on what we are shown.

Do you guys agree with that? Disagree? Or do y'all simply refuse to talk to me about it? I believe I've been civil and open to talking but if you choose to continue ignoring, me that's fine.I'll gladly leave but know that it is because I tried to be fair about this and the two of you used your position to make the page biased in favor of a character instead of accurately abiding to the Trope guidelines.

I'm sorry if I have given you any reason to be frightened to engage me in a mature discussion and since both of you have been mostly silent then I am to assume that this is "your" page and anyone who is not inline with your way of thinking is unwelcome. I don't think that's the case, I hope not anyway, but I appeal to you to be willing to actually "discuss" this on the "discussion" page instead of ignoring me. I'm willing to talk, are you guys?

Sorry, haven't looked at this page in a while.

Drew is not one of my favorites really, but a lot of these entries that were added against him are a case of demonization} and Ron the Death Eater. I would only agree with these entries if Drew were presented as a villainous character, but he isn't. In fact, that's the thing about this show is that none of the characters are villains or heroes. The bad characters do good things, some of the good characters do mean things. To me, Drew is firmly in the middle. I mean, they're teenagers, they can change.

It's silly to argue whether or not Drew cares about Adam because he clearly does. This is not my interpretation, this is something he has shown in the series despite his missteps. The issue I have is the same I had with a previous poster in that he was projecting his dislike entirely too much to the point where I got completely frustrated and the same thing is happening here.

And no, I'm not the boss of this page and don't really care about how the fanbase feels about a certain character, but I don't want gushing or complaining on this page because at the end of the day, this isn't a hate page or a fan page, it's just the Characters page for Degrassi describing characters. There's a point about the Knight Templar Big Brother entry, and I'll look at that.

ETA: Also, your Character Shilling entry was Sqaure Peg Round Trope. Anya's remark about Owen wasn't gushing over him, she was just stating that Owen spends a lot of time in the gym which he actually does. The Katie example also does not fit, and she's not gushing over how handsome, perfect and flawless he is. Doesn't fit.

• "Drew is not one of my favorites really, but a lot of these entries that were added against him are a case of demonization} and Ron The Death Eater."
  • Who decides that, you? Having legitamite criticisms against a character is not either of those tropes. "Drew is feces-eating, Complete Monster who would rape or murder any woman or any LGBT person as soon as look at them." That is an example of Ron the Death Eater and Demonization. Putting down that he MIGHT be a Jerk with a Heart of Jerk IN ADDITION TO Jerk with a Heart of Gold, and accompanied by a reasonable, respectful and well thought out argument criticizing him and the show is not either of the tropes you claim.

• "case of demonization} and Ron The Death Eater."
  • As opposed to the set of Leather Pants you're putting him in?

• "I would only agree with these entries if Drew were presented as a villainous character, but he isn't."
  • Jerk Sue

• "In fact, that's the thing about this show is that none of the characters are villains or heroes. The bad characters do good things, some of the good characters do mean things."
  • I disagree. Due to Character Development, some villainous characters have obviously morphed into heroes (see Spinner, Paige, etc.) or were nice to begin with and always have been nice (Marco, Wesley, Toby, etc.). A character does not have to be Incorruptible Pure Pureness to be a good person, as this would disqualify most real life good people. Similarly, a person does not have to be a Complete Monster to be a bad person, as this would also disqualify many real life bad people.
    • Also it should be noted that every nasty character who turned good went through an entire season or two where they or someone they loved went through Hell and did their best to help (Spinner, Peter with Emma's anorexia and Darcy's rape) and through genuine Character Development. Drew on the other hand has gotten less than one half of a season to make his questionable, supposed Heel–Face Turn, and is arguably even more unpleasent than he was to begin with thanks to him having Fake PTSD and thus be able to have rages against people and still "just misunderstood."

• "I mean, they're teenagers, they can change."
  • Being a teenager does not give you an excuse to be a selfish, callous little git. By the time this troper was fourteen, he had been through enough crap to make most Degrassi character's lives look like a friggin' cakewalk yet despite this played The Heart to not only his friends and family but even tried to do so with people he didn't like.

• "It's silly to argue whether or not Drew cares about Adam because he clearly does"
  • Again, who decides that, you? Drew has shown Adam the bare minimum of affection that I would expect from a sibling who who is a caring brother. He is friends with Owen, despite the fact (yes, it is a fact) that Owen physically injured, humiliated and gay bashed poor, innocent Butt-Monkey Adam, despite the fact that Trans individuals have been known to kill themselves over being bullied. And of course, there's the fact (yes, it is a fact, because it's never happened) he has not attempted to apologize or shown even the slightest hints of remorse.
    • Furthermore, Bianca was just as nasty (though in a psychological manner) as Owen, and actually CAUSED Adam's physical injuries (outing him in the worst way possible... touching his boobs..., Stripping his clothes off in public to humiliate him... Possible sexual abuse?) and even after this occured she ostracized him and called him an ugly girl (as if she has any right to talk). It was not until OVER AN ENTIRE SEASON LATER THAT SHE APOLOGIZED OR INDEED SHOWN EVEN THE SLIGHTEST HINT OF REMORSE, yet despite that Drew still dated and had sex with her despite caring about Adam.
    • Also, when Adam was trying to make his family realize that he's a boy, he joined in with a rest of his family that Adam should just except trying to be Gracie. Adam's mother got a scene where Adam made her realize that he's not a boy, but Drew got no similar treatment.
    • Furthermore, he in a sense, bullied Adam when they were competing over Fiona by calling him "not really a boy," knowing what he's been through, AFTER THE EPISODE WHERE DREW AND THE REST OF THE FAMILY HAVE SUPPOSEDLY EXCEPTED HIM AS A BOY. Furthermore, it's possible that Drew only gave up on Fiona because she's A KNOWN "DRUNK/CRAZY PERSON" (rewatch the episodes leading up to the trial with Bobby, and she's passing out in the middle of school) and therefore as her boyfriend would be expected to show at least a little bit of selflessness and help her through her issues.
    • Also, he blew up on Adam once he got his Fake PTSD.
  • If he's a good, caring brother despite all this I shudder to think of what you think a callous sibling would be.

• "The issue I have is the same I had with a previous poster in that he was projecting his dislike entirely too much to the point where I got completely frustrated and the same thing is happening here."
  • Having wasted a ton of time looking through the edit history, I'm inclide to agree with you. Jagged Prince was incredibly rude and although Drew is a very hatable character it does not excuse his antics. Seven7star on the other has been extremely calm and respectful but despite that you still attempt to silence him.

• "And no, I'm not the boss of this page"
  • Then don't act like it. You blatantly put Jerk with a Heart of Gold as being equal to his Jerkass status despite reasonable criticism from another troper. Likewise, you actually make it seem like his Pet the Dog moments are as frequent as his Kick the Dog moments, even though his Kick the Dog moments are indeed a much longer list. Yet despite this, you deny seven7star the oppurtinity to post a viewpoint that is held by a notable portion of the fanbase, and presumably me if I were so foolish to attempt to try and edit it to to be more neutral. That's not fair.

• "don't really care about how the fanbase feels about a certain character"
  • I honestly am skeptical of this claim.

• "but I don't want gushing or complaining on this page because at the end of the day, this isn't a hate page or a fan page, it's just the Characters page for Degrassi describing characters."
  • Yes, it is, which is why Jerk with a Heart of Jerk deserves mention here, considering Drew's status with the audience.
    • If you look at, for example, the page on Charmed, it's loaded with statements about how the sisters hold the Idiot Ball, occasionally cross over into Jerkass territory and how Phoebe is a Jerk Sue, and on multiple pages despite most of it being YMMV territory. This also despite the fact that the show treats them as the ultimate badass good guys, and some fans agree with the shows portrayal. Just so you know, I agree with these statements so no I'm not Character Shilling.
    • Furthermore, Owen is correctly identified as a Jerk Jock, Jerkass and being Easily Forgiven. Also, Emma is treated by the tropers as a Creator'sPet and Jerk Sue. What makes Drew so goshdanged awesome that he's above criticism when it is a legitamite argument and coming from a respectful poster?

Now before someone accuses me of hypocrisy, I'm fully aware that this is all subjective, but your viewpoint is subjective too. As such you do not have the right to silence any opposition to one of your favorites when it is held by a sizable portion of the fanbase. Though I suppose someone is going to come along and pester a mod to silence us.

And no, I'm not going to attempt to edit anything on any Degrassi page (except for it being related to Riley, because he's worth it, and it is love, not hate, which generally does not piss as many people off), since I realize it is mostly populated by fans of the series. As my current feelings towards what the show has become is less than praising, I won't bother the fans since I hate people hating on my favorites too. As for my edits on Riley, someone can list skeptical criticisms (such as I wish I could do for Drew) as long as they don't delete the positive. However if it strays too much into subjectiveness then I'll keep my affection for this character limited to the YMMV page and the Sugar Wiki. However if what I put down is too subjective, then what you want for Drew is also too subjective.

Lastly I want to say that I would normally avoid this subject like the plague, but seven7star is a very good friend of mine who is too busy with real life to spend much time on this site, and also that you playing HBIC annoyed me.

Take three deep breaths Jagged Prince 23 (yes, you're totally that same person) and please step away from the computer. You are taking this entirely too seriously.

I haven't tried to silence anyone, and what happened to seven7star wasn't my doing and in fact I haven't noticed that the editor stopped posting. In fact, due to that poster's suggestion, I accuately deleted the Knight Templar Big Brother entry.

The character of Drew is a Base Breaker (though I'm not sure of that, from what I've seen in the fandom, he doesn't get as much dislike) and as a rule of TV Tropes, we try to limit those to the YMMV area as opposed to this main page. I don't wanna get into this argument again. The character has done Jerkass things and also some good things. Whether or not the Jerkass things outweigh the nice things is a matter of opinion.

Lol making baseless accusations are we? So much for not being rude.

Also, on a side note, people putting bad people into Leather Pants is a berserk button of mine, just like people putting good guys into Death Eater masks.

"Whether or not the Jerkass things outweigh the nice things is a matter of opinion." Which is why the page should just either list "Jerkass" or underneath "Jerkass" there should be put "Jerk with a Heart of Gold / Jerk with a Heart of Jerk." You're making it seem like his "nice" things have outweighed his Jerkass actions, which is not true. Take back the Leather Pants.

It's not baseless, trust me on that. And I'll leave it at that. The Drew section won't be updated by me until I stumble upon a trope that he fits into. Please take your complaining somewhere else.

Why, because we share a hatred for one character and share a love for another character? Oh my. What does this spell for other people with common interests? Again, so much for not being rude. 9.9

Apparently someone wasn't paying attention. I never said I was going to try and edit the page. I was just pointing out the gigantic gaping holes in your argument, holes which you have still not been able to fill in. I'll admit it's tempting to try and fix the Drew section but I know you're just gonna delete my edit anyways. Still, at the end of all this, it really comes down to you deciding what's best, deciding that your opinion on Drew is more valid than anyone else and denying anyone a chance to give a more balanced, neutral description of his character. All this despite the fact that you are not a mod (though I would not be surprised if a mod did show up to silence me if I did decide to fix the page). Fair? I think not, but I'm not gonna push it any further since I'm not really one for trolling fan pages. I just stepped in on this argument because, like I said, seven7star is my friend.

Also, complaining? Oh really now? Are you forgetting something? Look at the page and scroll up, keep scrolling till you're almost at the top. There. Who started this discussion? You did. If you were going to whine about people "complaining" on the discussion page then you really shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

Also, take deep breaths? You seem to be under the impression that I'm mad. I don't have to be upset to make a strong argument.

Welcome to TV Tropes.

Well Karma Houdini isn't "less what someone deserves" but "totally getting away with it" and Eli didn't completely get away unscathed for his actions. And Fitz's life wasn't so much ruined by Eli as much by himself when he brought a knife into the school and threatened Eli with it. I'm just trying to make the page objective.

Thanks for the welcoming! :D

Then I guess in the show at least he would not be considered a Karma Houdini, but the fact that most of the fans of Eli try very hard to absolve him of wrongdoing aggravates it further. Yes, Fitz did do all that, and he was to blame for it as well, but he didn't stoop as low as Eli. I'm sympathetic to Fitz because he's actually admitted he was wrong, is remorseful and paid for his crimes.

Then that would make Eli a Draco in Leather Pants, feel free to add that to the YMMV page if it isn't there.