Pokémon anime

Because the accusations of Sue were present since she blasted off TR.

...What? Since when did beating TR make a character a Sue? They were beaten by a Caterpie in their second appearance! Seriously even when they Take a Level in Badass they exist to be punching bags!!

edited 4th Sep '14 5:33:05 PM by WorldTurtle

It's not like blasting them off is SOLELY Ash's job. Pretty sure Brock's done it at least once, and so have Butch and Cassidy.

But apparently, that makes her a Sue. I speak for all of us when I say...what?

Glass Joe could defeat Team Rocket! How the hell is Serena beating them making her overpowered?!

Because she's the new girl? This has happen every time to various degrees since Misty left, I haven't look, but I do not want to know what the Pokeshippers or the rest think of her clear and obvious romantic interest in Ash.

edited 4th Sep '14 7:01:06 PM by WorldTurtle

Same logic as why people think Goku needs to be in SSB 4.

Because she's the new girl? This has happen every time to various degrees since Misty left, I haven't look, but I do not want to know what the Pokeshippers or the rest think of her clear and obvious romantic interest in Ash.

I think the reason you don't see too many Pokeshippers whining about Serena is simply because this late in the series all those people have finally died off and left the Pokemon fandom after finally getting it through their thick skulls that Misty was never returning in the series.

The reason you saw them constantly complaining about May/Dawn is simply because they lingered in the fanbase years after Misty left (from 2003-2010), because for some reason they still thought Misty was going to come back. I think it was Brock finally leaving too at the end of DP that convinced them once and for all Misty was never returning, so they finally quieted down and retreated to the darkest corners of deviantart and tumblr.

Most of those obsessive Pokeshippers don't keep tabs on the anime anymore, so Serena doesn't register for them. Believe me, if Serena had been introduced earlier in the series, or if Dawn was written with a crush like Serena is now, they would have went absolutely ballistic raging on forums and making death threads and utter nonsense. This is the same irrational fear they had when they thought May was going to be a love interest for Ash when Hoenn first started airing even though she wasn't.

I honestly have no clue why those more obsessive Pokeshippers (I differentiate them from the normal Pokeshippers, as in the rational ones), stayed in the Pokemon fandom for a decade after Misty left constantly causing arguments and flaming about main girl wars for years. Those people were utter idiots and the fandom is better off without them.

If you notice there aren't too many main girl wars in the fandom anymore, probably because they were virtually always started by Misty fans. Its a shame that a few crazies can make an entire fanbase look bad, because I know there are plenty of good Misty fans out there who don't act like that, but what can you do.

edited 4th Sep '14 7:36:12 PM by precita

I'm probably being rather hasty to blame it all on shipping, but I can't think of any other reason why they'd call her a Sue for beating Team Rocket!

I repeat that …What?

edited 4th Sep '14 8:14:27 PM by WorldTurtle

Maybe it's cause TR has their advanced equipment from the BW saga and can still post a threat? At least that's what I've heard.

And here we go again talking about particulars of episodes-yet-to-be-dubbed without using spoiler code. (Generalities, e.g. the fact that there was a True Triple today, may be fine to not-spoiler depending on how much it was hyped up earlier.^note And,in this case, I'm thinking that it was hyped up enough to mention without spoiler overlay, just not report on it without it.)

On that note, however, Was Fennekin curb-stomped, either by a direct attack or (worse) getting caught in the Splash of an attack on Pikachu? Or did Fenekin last long enough to do some damage of her own/serve as a distraction?

Also, Serena? Mary-Sue? Seriously? If the answer to the above is "curb-stomped", it's more like Anti-Sue. At least she's not as ditzy as Cameron. Vs. Bianca... toss-up.

But, seriously: even if Serena's true passions^note other than Ash are not serviced in Kalos, and even if being Culture Blind with respect to Pokemon training^note as opposed to Kalosite Culture, which is where Ash is blind, was her "role" initially, it's about time she starts being able to defend herself better, her one-time blasting-off of Team Rocket aside. I will give that she's a bit more honest about her inability to contribute to the plot than Misty and Iris were, and possibly even Max, but a Load is still The Load, especially when the Sliding Scale of Villain Threat gets into gear.

Oh and knowing that she Can't Catch Up is no excuse; unless she's banking on becoming a Deliberately Distressed Damsel when the group goes up against Team Flare...

EDIT: As for Team Rocket: while they don't have much of their advanced equipment anymore, they retained a level of competence which allows their plans to be realistic, even when they're just as effective as in their Goldfish Poop days. Still, I'm finding their still following Ash around to wear more thinly than Serena is; especially with their newfound^note and perfectly reasonable, both in-universe and out, Meowth's fantasies aside, focus on Mega-Evolution. Granted, there was that month (production time) with Korinna on the team, but they'd have to go off-screen for the past 2 months (in Japan) in order to show that that's their focus for this part of the arc, as opposed to "the Twerps". It's just that their "butting heads with our heros every episode over another otherwise-reasonable plot" is becoming overly-Contrived once again.

edited 4th Sep '14 8:50:01 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Sorry I can't find any evidence on these claims yet, but here's a quote that sums it up nicely.

"Hey guys, wanna hear something stupid? So i was looking at tumblr to read peoples general opinion on the episode and some people think Serena is now Mary Sue. All because she knocked Team Rocket's balloon out of the sky. Seriously, this is my problem with fanbases of shows and movies. The writers finally do something we all want them to do and some people have to find something wrong with it and try to start a damn war with others of the same fanbase."

That's their problem? If anything the problem is Serena isn't doing enough, let alone coming off as too powerful. Yeah Serena is good at alot of things but she's not exactly a master at any of them either.

I mean shippers will hate any girl that isn't their prefered ship, but beyond that, the only real complaint I can find with her is she isn't being used as well as May and especially Dawn were (she's certainly not actively irritating like Iris was).

Most people seemed to be actively interested in her at first, and only starting hating when 40 eps went by without her getting a goal or even getting another mon beyond her starter.

"the only real complaint I can find with her is she isn't being used as well as May and especially Dawn were"

We can blame that on two things together:

• The writers also using Clemont and Bonnie, thus having need for only "eyecandy"
• The lack of non-battle-related sidequests in Gen 6. Oh, sure, you have fashion, but that didn't really have any bearing on the game itself. As for Poke-Amie, that's covered by Bonnie and, to a lesser extent, Ash himself.

In effect, there's nothing that Serena can be used for, aside from being a Satellite Love Interest, the aforementioned Virtual Paper Doll aspect, and being an Audience Surrogate and The Watson. And the writers have used the last to some extent, but that doesn't work for long; as proven by the Fan Disillusionment over Ash being dumbed down to a Rookie in Best Wishes.

The only possible exception is if Ash is, in Agent K's words, "training a replacement"; a possibility that the Romance Arc seems to preclude. I've also theorized previously on this thread that SLI is intended to be the extent of her character to set up a Take That against the Shipping Community. At any rate, I'd bank on the writers having a specific purpose in mind for Serena, which, when revealed, will either invoke Fridge Brilliance or Base Breaking.

Oddly enough I think the duo of Clemont and Bonnie are eating away Serena's screentime. Back in AG and DP Brock could be ignored because he was an old character and the writers didn't have to develop him since we knew who he was. So May and to a lesser extent Max got the non-Ash focus in AG, and in DP Dawn got even more focus because there was no 4th character and Brock declined even further.

This time around the writers introduced 3 new main characters in a single saga, which has never actually happened before. The writers have to give most of the show to Ash, so it's the other 3 competing for screentime and Serena's lack of a goal lets her be forgotten.

Even if they gave Serena more time, the fact that there's not a non-battling sidequest in Gen 6^note As opposed to Contests, Pokeathlon, Musicals, or Movies in previous generations, though Pokevision is related to the last, other than Rhyhorn Racing, and even that isn't really utilized in the games except for crossing "bridges", means that even with more time, there's nothing for Serena to do with that focus.

Even Iris and Misty did more in this time without a fully explored goal. There is no excuse.

Regardless of what people think, I am still hopeful. And I'm sure it'll pay off.

Anyway, today's English episode...great! Mawile is adorable, I love this semi-conclusion to Korrina, but if you know me, you know what my favorite part was.

Oddly enough I think the duo of Clemont and Bonnie are eating away Serena's screentime ... Serena's lack of a goal lets her be forgotten.

Well, considering that I'm probably the only one who's picked up on Serena being this arc's Watson, you may have a point there.

I mean, did you see any party member, heck even rival, who was more clueless about what exactly a journey entailed than Serena back in the first 20 episodes of this series? Even though I can't remember the exact episode without looking up a guide, I remember one episode's B-Plot (or what passed for it) being that Serena was completely unprepared for camping out. And, of course, there was the incident with the Corsola, where Serena had to be reminded that she could catch Pokemon in battle.^note Though going after a Corsola with a Fire-Type is a bad idea in general. Plus, if Serena would've been successful, it would've reawakened to horde of Misty fans.

Moments like those and her reaction to her reaction Meowth's Slap Yourself Awake suggestion and to Fenekin getting dirty make Serena a more true Foil to Ash than Misty and Iris were combined. Unfortunately, even with full authorial control^note which Shudo lacked in Misty's case and an apparent understanding of plot subtlety^note which Best Wishes lacked, they haven't done much with it. And you've probably hit on the reason why: even with the long periods between Gyms 1 & 2 and 2 & 3, there's so much focus on the Pokemon and the cultural institutions of Kalos that characters whose development can't be set up quickly aren't. This favors Bonnie with her interactions with Pokemon (as well as with potential mates for her brother), but that leaves little time to set up the type of gags that would work for Serena.

The worst part is, by the time that we know Bonnie, Clemont, and Kalos itself well enough so that we have more time to properly set up the Fish out of Water plots on Serena's side, she will have been with the group long enough that such plots would seem like Idiot Plots.

On a side note: Internet, I am disappoint. No mashups of Korrina's scenes to the Sonic X title theme?

Why does this thread constantly go back to "Hurr Durr, Serena"? You'd swear she was the main character and not Ash this season.

Anyway, Hawlucha debuts in the dub next week...Dub is moving pretty fast, didn't Hawlucha come in a few months ago.

Well, guess I'll take another drink. Ash has technically seen Mawile before, but acts as if he has not in Saturday's ep.

Probably because we care more about Serena and how her path is going to follow. We don't have to follow Ash as much.

More like we know where Ash is going. We want to see what path Serena takes.

EDIT: What do you mean "technically"? Either he has or he hasn't and either it was a PotD, part of a Gym Leader's (or Rival's) team, or some tourney guy's/coordinator's team and, if it's the latter (and Ash didn't face it), then you can use the "technically" qualifier.

edited 7th Sep '14 3:07:35 PM by DonaldthePotholer

Yes, but you're discussing the merits of a character who hasn't really done a lot yet, seems somewhat overblown.

Especially since I feel like it kind of ignores the other two main characters beside Ash and Serena, hey guys did you know Clemont and Bonnie exists :V

edited 7th Sep '14 3:11:50 PM by BlackYakuzu94

Serena is the 5th female companion and has to live up to the girls who came before her. People did the same thing when May and Dawn were first introduced. Especially since back then the writers had to make sure Misty replacements were successful or we would have another Tracey situation.