Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Honestly, it seems the demons as a whole are in utter awe of their 'father', but such worship isn't shown to be love. Most don't really seem to think Luce is going to destroy them when he's done with humanity. Alastair seems to appreciate Lilith's appetite for cruelty but nothing else

edited 5th Jan '14 5:46:58 PM by Lightysnake

Other people have had to read Mark Millar; I consider it all part of my duty.

edited 5th Jan '14 5:48:51 PM by HamburgerTime

There's another Monster.Fan Works example I would like to discuss:

• Taboo Parallel:
  • Yui claims that the real reason Kyoko went insane and killed herself was because she was a slut but suppressed it. She sees Asuka's tsundereness as a warning sign of Asuka suffering from denial as well. Yui's response? Use her connections in a pharmaceutical company to create a very potent date rape drug with aphrodisiac properties, then have two guys use it on Asuka and Rei to repeatedly rape them while filming the whole thing as blackmail material to prevent Asuka from not complying (due to the drug, Asuka is behaving like she's a willing and very eager participant). Which presents with two choices: abandon all her human pride and turn into a sex-addicted whore or Yui will throw her out and make sure to permanently ruin her reputation. This ordeal is exactly what triggers her attempted rape of Shinji, making it impossible for him to return her feelings. Apparently, Yui wants to prevent Asuka's self-destruction by forcing her to turn into what Yui claims Asuka is suppressing; Yui also knows about Asuka's crush on Shinji and claims that Asuka's self-destruction would pull Shinji with her as well, hence why she's turning a teenage girl into someone who can only relate to people via sex and is completely incapable of loving anyone. Makes sense, doesn't it? Worse yet Rei was nothing do does with this. Yui had her raped as well because it would've been suspicious otherwise and actually feels sorry for the girl but assures herself it's a necessary evil.
  • Then it turns out that Mana is in on Yui's crazy plan as well because she loves Shinji but hates Asuka for loving Shinji as well; end result is that Mana is an eager participant in Asuka's torment and sets up Shinji to witness how far Asuka had fallen to eliminate any possibility of Shinji actually having feelings for Asuka.
  • Speaking of which, the two guys working at breaking Asuka? One of them is only in it for the sex while the other is the Unlucky Childhood Friend of Mana and is only venting his frustration on Asuka...at first.
  • Ritsuko joined in on the fun as well, forcing Asuka to work as, in her own words, "a special sex education lecture to a few students who have shown an affinity for certain potentially unhealthy habits."

It seems that Yui raises the heinous bar, to the extent that the other simply don't live up to it.

You know, reading that, I'm thinking this just might be a hentai/pornfic. In which case, I'm thinking we don't need to talk about it, and should just remove the example, the same way we do with real hentai.

Does anyone object if I request to swap Sandbox.Live Action TV Monsters A-F with the folder on the main page?

Not at all, long as it's up to date with the most recent edit requests

Yep

Not relevant to any present discussion, but I just learned that post-Flashpoint, Arthur Light is a good guy.

I must once again defer my commentary to Mr. Tra- no, this is beyond even Trafalgar Law. For this I must bring in Ener◊.

edited 5th Jan '14 10:42:40 PM by HamburgerTime

With apologies for re-opening an old discussion while so many others are already active, I just took a gander at the sandbox for Live Action TV A-F, and I wonder if the 2 January 2014 episode of Elementary, "The Diabolical Kind", might disqualify Moriarty.

Lest anyone hasn't yet seen the episode, it involves the kidnapping of a young girl. The suspect list includes several of Moriarty's lieutenants, so initial suspicion is that she has orchestrated the kidnapping. However, she turns out to be one of the intended targets; the young girl is her daughter (not by Sherlock; she was born before Moriarty met Sherlock), whom she gave up for adoption at birth as she knew motherhood was incompatible with her chosen career. Moriarty disables the electronic restraints keeping her under control while she is aiding the investigation into the kidnapping and, in a Mama Bear moment, massacres the kidnappers and rescues her daughter. For all her crimes, she does seem to genuinely care about her daughter.

Anyone else have any thoughts? At the very least, I'd be inclined to withhold final judgement until the series ends (whenever that may be), lest the events that seem to disqualify her end up being cast in a new light in future episodes.

edited 6th Jan '14 12:17:01 AM by mlsmithca

I'd say give it to season's end. Moriarity is a person defined by her ego. Something that 'belongs' to her is hers alone.

REALLY???

@ Ambar Sonof Deshar: Yeah that sounds about right. Probably get rid off Witness and the Axis Powers Hetalia examples too.

edited 6th Jan '14 7:40:06 AM by randomtroper89

Rape disgusts Turner? That's a STRANGE case of Even Evil Has Standards.
Anyway, for The Lieutenant of Inishmore, I'm not sure Padraic counts. Even disregarding the fact that the show's an EXTREMELY Black Comedy, he DOES seem to love his cat (don't know if that's enough of a factor though).

I say to Moriarty and a possible to Zeus (it's been a while since I've seen that episode).

Also thinking about adding these two from Teen Wolf on to the TV section of the Complete Monster page.

• Gerard Argent, the Big Bad of season two. His Establishing Character Moment is killing an innocent Omega werewolf, and declare that all werewolves in Beacon Hills to be hunted down and killed regardless of thier innocence, and he cliams to be doing this to avenge Kate, but it's clear he has a different agenda. It's heavily implied that he brainwashed Kate into the raciest werewolf hunter she is and had her seduce Derek and burn down his families house, and when Victoria is bitten by a werewolf, Gerard forces Chris to kill her. He also manipulates Allison's grief to brainwash her like he did Kate, turning her into a ruthless werewolf hunter herself. Later in the season he kills the Kanima master and takes control of the beast, and uses it to threaten an entire unwitting crowd at a lacrosse game, unless Scott brings him Derek. In the season finale, we learn Gerard's true motive - become a werewolf himself to cure his cancer, and possibly take over as Alpha. He uses the Kanima to take everyone hostage even saying he would kill his own son to help his own survival. When that plan falls flat he orders the Kanima to kill everyone. In season three, we learn in his past, when the werewolf Deucalion wanted peace between werewolves and hunters, Gerard kills Deucalion's pack and the hunters who agreed with him. Gerard also blinds Deucalion with flashbang arrows and frames him for the death.
• Jennifer falls here too, she killed 12 innocent people in cold blood for power. Tried to kill Danny just because he had info that might endanger her. Not to mention setting up Psychic-Assisted Suicide on four traumatized teenagers including the main character. Boyd died partially because she insisted on maintaining her facade. She strangled Lydia. The main thing is that she never shows the slightest remorse, but keeps on pathologically justifying herself. When Chris Argent confronts her on her murders she smiles and says that they are 'sacrifices'. For all her eloquent speeches that she needs to stop the Alpha Pack for the good of many she never interferes when they hurt people. She is out for revenge and her own interests and would stop at nothing to achieve it.

edited 6th Jan '14 7:49:41 AM by Beast

@ Occasional Exister: While I haven't seen Breaking Bad and so don't know about Todd, I'd say your take on Boyd is probably the best way to characterize him: genuinely sociopathic while genuinely Affably Evil. It's the pattern of how he treats his "friends" that is difficult to judge: claims to love them, force them to join him in the apocalypse, kill or reprogram them if they refuse. Maybe it's different with Echo and he cares about her more than the others.

I'll agree the twist was quite forced, yeah. While the quality of the writing is of course not an argument for or against, it does make his characterization incomprehensible. I think Alpha would be disqualified even if he didn't pull a Heel–Face Turn at the last second, since he seemed to be legitimately in love with the imprint of his psychotic girlfriend whom he placed in Whiskey and Echo.

The unnamed pedophile kidnapper is a keep, so that leaves us with Kinnard, Hearn, and the kidnapper for Dollhouse.

Since Zeus has been confirmed to at least initially have cared about the other gods I vote against him.

edited 6th Jan '14 8:39:51 AM by Morgenthaler

I'm not sure about Padarig (I know he was discussed at some point- did he get a yes vote?- I see his entry was expanded).

I think he'd be more easily disqualified on the basis of the play being a very dark black comedy, than for any redeeming traits.

He does really love his cat, but it stands out the extent to which that love motivates him to do horrible things to other people (in addition to the horrible things he does otherwise), and how it's not like he's an animal lover- he cares about his cat, but is indifferent to other peoples' pets.

RE Elementary's Moriarty, seems like a possible cut, although I somewhat roll my eyes at the use of Deliver Us from Evil.

edited 6th Jan '14 8:44:20 AM by Hodor

The Teen Wolf examples seem keepers. I've done some research on it and Gerard appears to breach the heinous standard and be an utter hypocrite to invalidate his Knight Templar aspects ("Werewolves! We must destroy them all! Even the nice ones!....yes, I want to become one to save my own life and rule their society, why do you ask?")

The examples need to be despoilered, though

edited 6th Jan '14 9:05:46 AM by Lightysnake

Isn't loving one's pet still a disqualifier? And he does have a strange Even Evil Has Standards in that he doesn't want drugs sold to Catholics.

I agree on the pet ground. The thing with drug selling is like a parody of Even Evil Has Standards- since Patrick's an Irish Catholic extremist (to the degree that the more extreme IRA types wanted nothing to do with him), he opposes the drug selling to Catholics, but has no problem with selling drugs to Protestants.

And there's the fact that Patrick is characterizing a guy who deals pot to university students as "selling drugs to children".

As an animal lover myself I'm going to vote "Yes" on the "Does loving a pet disqualify you?" debate.

edited 6th Jan '14 11:42:54 AM by HamburgerTime

I watch Elementary and, judging from the latest episode's revelations, I'm going to say Moriarty is a definite . I highly doubt that Zeus from Supernatural would qualify as well.

Gerard and Jennifer sound like they qualify, so I'll give them both a . Anyone want to take a crack at editing the entries so they can go on the Live-Action page?

edited 6th Jan '14 12:53:54 PM by sanfranman91

So consensus to cut Padraic?

Well, sounds like we ought cut Moriarity.

Sanfran, can you touch up the From The New World entries?

Side note. Anyone remember Da Ji, the evil fox spirit from chinese mythology? Well, I've been reading Fengshen Yani and the translation I have doesn't seem to give her much a redeeming feature. While she does see the furs of her relatives, the text is pretty ambiguous in English on whether or not she feels any sadness towards them...when her sister died earlier, Da Ji just feels humiliation for herself at having lost.

So it may well be she qualifies here, all things considered.

edited 6th Jan '14 1:23:01 PM by Lightysnake

Is anyone ready to address my point about Yukino yet? Sorry for not waiting 'til the other topic was done.

On it. Might take time with classes, though, so I'll try to do what I can during free time.