During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
@Silverblade: Shattered Doll is a Dark Fic based off the lighthearted animated show Chalk Zone. And that's really all I need to say about whether or not it can have a CM. And The Nephandi sound like a group, so that's an automatic cut. Everything else I have no knowledge of, so I'm not sure if they could have a CM or not.
I may or may not have an effortpost for a comic coming up soon. And no, this time it won't be based off an over-the-top comic with dinosaurs in it. 
edited 23rd Jan '17 7:08:36 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Have another proposal today, from another manga. This from a heroic fantasy series called Superior:
What's The Work?
The world is a rather...traditional fantasy setting. thing is, the human race has been at war with the demon/monster race since time immemorial. The demons have slaughtered human settlements, and the humans have retaliated in kind, massacring multiple demons.
Now? Everything has changed, as both races have champions who can lead them to victory. The demons have their prophesized demon queen, who led them to victory since her childhood, while humans have their destined hero, named Exa, a Sole Survivor of a demon raid that killed his family, led by the demon queen. In the smoke, though, neither Exa nor the queen saw one another's faces.
Years later, Exa has assembled a group of companions, with the intention of destroying the demon queen and ending the war. A mysterious young woman named Sheila joins the group and is stunned as Exa refuses to kill anyone, human or demon, planning only to destroy the Demon Queen. Exa and Sheila begin developing feelings for one another...which complicates things, as Sheila, of course, IS the demon queen, and joined to get closer to and destroy the hero...as both begin learning more about one another's races and how pointless the whole war really is.
Which leads us to our true villain...
Who Is He?
The Demon Lord. The Original...Sheila's 'father'. A tyrannical, brutal demon whose rule was coming to an end. The Demon Lord initiated a gambit to spare his own life. Creating an offspring who would become Sheila, the Demon Lord used a special sort of spell: when Sheila created copies of her own, equaling three, and when one died, he would return to life. He and his wife were then slain by a group of heroes.
Toward the end of the series, the spell requirements come to pass, and the Demon Lord revives himself by tearing his way out of Sheila's first copy and Evil Twin...aptly named 'Copy', and returns to his original form
What's He Done?
Upon his revival, he massacres Copy's own minions and demons, exterminating hundreds upon hundreds of members. He then brings about monsters of his own creation across the planet, with instructions to exterminate everything: human, monster and everything else. His exact words are wishing to, ahem, "paint the world red with blood."
When Exa, Sheila and the others confront him, The Demon Lord beats them down and offers his 'daughter' a choice: Assist him in killing everything on Earth in return for her friends' lives, or kill all of her friends with her own hands in exchange for the lives of all humanity. Sheila opts for the latter and the Demon Lord orders her to kill her friends, directing her to obliterate them.
Sheila, of course, was bluffing, and with Exa's assistance, Sheila fights back against her father who tries to murder them both. Finally, Sheila opens a dimensional gateway to seal the Demon Lord away forever...unfortunately sealing herself away with him.
...though we find out that thanks to a timeskip, humans and demons have learned to coexist and disaster has been averted...and Exa manages to open the other dimension and save Sheila, leading to a happy ever after as the two of them become a couple.
Freudian Excuse?
None.
Mitigating Qualities?
To get it out of the way: demons have full moral agency. The race is a tad predisposed to be violent, but demons are fully capable of emotion, feelings, goodness, charity and helping others. Sheila is raised by a demon named Kagami who loves her like his own daughter, and the war is really based around an endless Cycle of Revenge both species are caught in. The demons see humans just as monstrous as humans see them. The Demon Lord goes against this by trying to wipe out both races and showed no care for his wife, while considering Sheila a puppet to be used and discarded. The only time he offers her the choice with his spell (And she only took the option she did because if she refused, he'd exterminate humanity on the spot), because due to how the spell works, he couldn't break his word or risk serious harm/death to himself. He still planned on annihilating both races and bringing about his own new master race.
Heinous Standard?
Handily exceeds. Superior is a dark setting. Copy massacres innocent villages with other nasty crimes, and Sheila herself led a demonic massacre of Exa's hometown (as humans killed her people, she thought they were evil and had to be wiped out as well. Getting to know Exa and the others teaches her she was wrong about humans and the two end up falling in love)
The Demon Lord massacres his own troops for kicks, orders assaults much higher in scale than Sheila or Copy's attacks and plans to kill everything else on the planet, since he views them as 'filth' with their only purpose being to serve as paint to dye the earth crimson. We're talking leaps and bounds over the heinous standard.
Conclusion?
keeper.
@ACW: Ah, thanks for that!
Yeah, I'll give an ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Demon Lord.Sama Senpai Baron. He seems quite harsh and I trust Lighty's judgement.
Also, I've decided to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
The Bruce. Sorry about this.
A yes to the Demon Lord.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Demon Lord.
Scratch the comic proposal. Turns out the third volume (which is a prequel) ends on a cliffhanger. A very nasty one. And since the comic was released just last month, I'm assuming Volume 4 is in the works. For now I'll just wait and see how the comic develops.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Desert Star. It's a western about a man out for vengeance after his wife and daughter are raped and murdered.
edited 23rd Jan '17 10:54:24 AM by Tyk5919
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Out of curiosity, what's the comic? Demon Lord BTW (but, "though we find out that thanks to a timeskip, humans and demons have learned to coexist and disaster has been averted"..hope that isn't as bad as it sounds).
edited 23rd Jan '17 10:56:02 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
.....why would that be bad?
The Demon Lord
Hey guys I looked at Daniel Budd's entry from NCIS and after re watching the episodes he appeared I want to do some work on it.
Here is what it looks like now:
- Daniel Budd, appearing in the season 12 finale "The Lost Boys" and the season 13 premiere "Stop the Bleeding", was the leader of The Calling, a terrorist group responsible for recruiting children through the Internet, all for the purpose of turning them into terrorists or suicide bombers. Those he turns to terrorists are sent to kill several naval agents, while those he turns into suicide bombers blow themselves in highly populated areas, causing many casualties; he sent a young boy to blow himself up at Cairo, Egypt, causing dozens of innocent casualties, just to kill an NCIS agent located there. He also doesn't like any interference with his organization, so when the adoptive parents of a young boy tries to convince him to leave the Calling, he has them killed. As for the children he recruits, they are only tools in his eyes, and when one of them is arrested, he has him killed just so he won't say anything. He also uses the said boy of adopted parents to kill Agent Gibbs, and nearly succeeds in doing so. Despite the failed attempt, Budd was still a menace and his next plan to destroy Shanghai and make it look like the North Koreans did to kickstart a war between them. His reasons for doing all of this was simply to have the world fear him and in the end, he was a narcissistic sociopath who would murder hundreds if not thousands, just to reach this selfish goal.
This is my re-write:
- Daniel Budd, appearing in the season 12 finale "The Lost Boys" and the season 13 premiere "Stop the Bleeding", was the leader of The Calling, a terrorist group responsible for recruiting children through the Internet, all for the purpose of turning them into terrorists or suicide bombers. Those he turns to terrorists are sent to kill several naval agents, while those he turns into suicide bombers blow themselves in highly populated areas, causing many casualties; he sent a young boy to blow himself up at Cairo, Egypt, causing dozens of innocent casualties, just to kill an NCIS agent located there. He also doesn't like any interference with his organization, so when the adoptive parents of a young boy tries to convince him to leave the Calling, he has them killed. As for the children he recruits, they are only tools in his eyes, and when one of them is arrested, he has him killed just so he won't say anything. He also uses the said boy of adopted parents to kill Agent Gibbs, and nearly succeeds in doing so. Despite the failed attempt, Budd was still a menace and his next plan to destroy Shanghai and make it look like the North Koreans. His reasons for doing all of this was to kickstart a war simply because he could and was a pure sociopath who would murder hundreds if not thousands, just to reach this selfish goal.
How does it look?
edited 23rd Jan '17 12:04:36 PM by G-Editor
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I dunno, after a Time Skip everything's just fine? Reeks of a Deus ex Machina. Looks fine.
Oh, for...
Yeah, it's not like there was an enormous arc about coexistence in the series and it's a logical conclusion to themes and plot points addressed and set up in the story, which didn't need to serve as the basis of a completely pointless comment.
Demon Lord.
About Screwface; there's something that bothers me. Is it not actually that Screwface's twin, the one stationed in America, is actually Screwface#1 aka the one responsible of all the events of the movie while the one stationed in Jamaica who dies first is Screwface#2 ? If that's so and Screwface#1 is genuine angry or upset about his brother's death and wants to avenge him, then I'll give him a . I could be wrong now. It's been a long time I saw that movie.
RIP Toriyama
Late 'Yes' votes for Screwface and Tsuneyoshi, the latter of whom is easily one the more disgusting Keepers I've dealt with in a while. What a prick that guy was.
Demon Lord's also a 'Yes', handily.
Now, here's Karzac. Will get him along with my other write-ups to the Drafts page ASAP.
- Broken Sword: From The Smoking Mirror, Karzac is a Cuban drug lord who is contacted by the imprisoned and ancient god of death, Tezcatlipoca, and, making a deal with the evil god, Karzac begins making plans to release Tezcatlipoca from his prison. Requiring the assistance of renowned scientist Professor Oubier, Karzac murders the man's wife, forcibly addicts him to drugs, then later executes him when he outlives his usefulness, something his own troops are not exempt from either. Along with regularly attempting to murder George Stobbart and his girlfriend, Nico Collard, at various times, Karzac leads an assault on a small village George is hiding in, burning it down and attempting to kill every villager residing there. Karzac then hopes to sacrifice George to open the door for Tezcatlipoca to come to Earth and cause untold amounts of chaos and destruction, something Karzac is fully aware yet uncaring of, hoping for Tezcatlipoca to grant him unlimited power in return for dooming humanity.
edited 23rd Jan '17 12:27:09 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of Tsuneyoshi, him and Big Madam are dead...what about Rize?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, so Rize could still return (and be redeemed...though from what I've seen, seems unlikely).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@MovieFan: No, that was Screwface #1 the entire time - including the one Hatcher kills first (there's literally no indication otherwise). The only indication we even get that Screwface #2 even follows his brother is a very brief bit of foreshadowing during his first scene... outside that, all on-screen appearances indicates Screwface #1 does everything.
edited 23rd Jan '17 1:24:22 PM by Scraggle
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
The Demon Lord. Sheila the Demon Queen, really? Is she related to Tim the Enchanter?
Wild Child
Demon Lord.
Demon Lord
to the Demon Lord.
@Hamburger Time Well, Voldy gave us the Tom the Dark Lord trope, so there's that.
I see no problem with a time skip if the central conflict is resolved and it would be unnecessary to see the exact stuff that happens in between. I guess.
Alright, I've got a few more to knock off the old chip in the coming days... firstly? Let's get to that other Elseworlds candidate. This one comes from part of a classic Batman story... the Batman/Vampire (or Batman & Dracula) trilogy.
What's the setting?
You all know the core. This doesn't necessarily take place in a drastically altered setting; Batman is still Batman, his rogues are still the rogues, and almost every character is more or less in their place. However, there is one marked difference... vampires prowl the streets and feed on the unlucky. During one of his tangos with them, Batman is infected by one of his undead quarries and slowly starts to turn into a vampire himself. Batman then comes into close contact with the lord of these vampires, Dracula himself. Drac's not who we're talking about, today, surprisingly enough (the main reason I hesitate on him is that our qualifier today has a much higher intended scale than he did with arguably fewer resources, powers, and time to do it, alongside a few niggling comments). Batman and Drac engage in a fight which ends with Drac dead and Batman struggling to overcome his lust for blood. In the sequel story to that, Bloodstorm, a very familiar customer comes a'calling...
Joker's in town, fellows.
Who is the Joker? What has he done?
Joker literally needs no introduction whatsoever. He's frequented this thread a million times in a million different forms and I imagine a ton of you are sick to death of him cropping up - I admit, I'm sort of in that camp myself. But, Ravok recommended the trilogy to me to me, the trilogy seemed a damn good read (it was, by the by; recommended, especially the first comic), and... well, Joker qualifies here, so I'm not going to bother turning down a perfectly valid proposal of a perfectly good iteration of the character from a perfectly good comic. Let's get the ball rolling.
Joker as he always is; a wisecracking psychopath with a penchant for sadistic tricks and zany one-liners as he's brutally murdering a fellow. Joker seizes the vacuum left behind by Dracula's death and approaches some of the remaining vampires - who have taken to feeding again in desperation - in one of their nests. One of them confronts him and gets a little too close to him, and Joker responds by squirting a flower full of holy water in his face, burning the vampire's face through as Joker laughs at him. Joker then offers the vampires a business proposal... under his guidance, they assault the city once again and become more powerful than they ever were before. The vampires take him up on the offer and Joker begins by attacking the hideout of mob boss Mr. Cardona. Joker gleefully watches as the vampires brutally tear apart Cardona and his accomplices, ripping off the men's faces and sucking their blood. Joker's promised this won't be the only one.
Joker continues to attack the crime bosses of Gotham, next attacking the mansion of crime boss Manny "the Shark" and once again seeing his men tear through Manny's men. Joker personally executes Manny with a shot to the head before telling his right-"fang" man Mr. Creach to devour the girl he was sleeping. Joker and his vampires continue to attack, converting all the men they kill into even more vampires, until Joker essentially holds all of the mob's territory and luxuriates in it. As the vampires bemoan that the wealth of the living holds no value to them, Joker reveals his plan; murder every person in Gotham City, convert them into his vampire henchmen, then branch out of Gotham and attack the rest of the nation. Joker remains perfectly human through all of this. A bit later in one of the now-undead Manny's attempted feedings, Joker oversees Batman kill the undead Manny and Creach confirms to him Batman is now chipping off members of the vampires he's gathered by staking and decapitating them. Joker's predictably displeased with this and arranges a trap for his old foe. Joker waltzes down to a church humming a merry little ditty, mock-confesses his sins to the priest within, before strangling the guy to death for a sick chuckle and decorating the entire place with silver crosses meant to kill the vampiric Batman.
As Batman succumbs more and more to his bloodthirst, only tempered by literal cat-woman Selina Kyle, Joker has his men move on to feeding on prostitutes - those who used to belong to some of the crime bosses. Batman and Selina burst in on one of these feedings and kill all the vampires within. Creach informs Joker that their numbers are dwindling by the moment and Joker has Batman lured into an abandoned warehouse. Their attempted murder on him fails and Joker watches with disdain as both his men and now Creach are killed, and he instead picks up a crossbow and attempts to kill Batman himself while he's distracted. Selina takes the bullet for him and dies. Joker, predictably, only finds this amusing and tries to shoot Batman again while he mourns... unfortunately for him, Batman's snapped, finally gives into his bloodlust, and pursues Joker. The trap Joker set in the church fails to work on Batman giving as he hasn't actually fed on any blood yet. Batman finally rectifies that by snapping the psycho's neck and draining him of his blood, finally ending him and plunging Batman into feral madness that'll continue into the next comic.
Any mitigating factors?
I don't think much has to be said here. He's the Joker; he's written as such, acts as such, he's the most heinous in the trilogy - surpassing Dracula through sheer intended scale alone - is bereft of anything even remotely resembling a redeeming quality... literally nothing to talk about here.
Conclusion?
You've all seen him at his best and his worst, and Joker's up to his usual tricks here. Nothing much to talk about - easy keep from yet another Clown Prince of Crime, I guess. Not intending on proposing any other Jokers soon.
Thoughts?
edited 23rd Jan '17 10:03:07 PM by Scraggle
Yep, keeper.
"Love that Joker!''
He gets a
For Maximum Carnage, I just now used the appropriate part of the approved entry from Carnage.
For the subpages, what about just the Comics stuff (FWIW, the Lit stuff looks fine to me)?
edited 23rd Jan '17 6:17:07 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts