Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Abstaining on Nightmare Eclipse until Occasional Exister or bobg or someone who's familiar with Pony POV gives their two cents.

Has Quan Chi from Mortal Kombat ever been brought up? He seems like a candidate.

An Omnicidal Maniac who wants to wipe out all life in all realms just to rule over the emptiness that will result, in addition to arranging the genocide of the Shiranui clan, murdering Scorpion's family, framing Sub Zero and then making Scorpion his personal lap dog, manipulating him into committing various murders and helping him in his plans. Not only that, but there's his Chronic Backstabbing Disorder and, in MK 9, he enslaves the souls of those who are killed in Earthrealm by the Outrealm invasion, including several of the heroes, mockingly laughing and gloating at Raiden as he reveals this.

A couple points against him is that some of the stuff he does is Offscreen Villainy and the fact that a lot of the crap he pulls was pulled was planned by his boss, Shinnok (who he plans to betray and murder as soon as he can).

I think, though, we should just put him on the watchlist till Mortal Kombat X is released. It's close enough that it won't be much of a problem and since Quan Chi is in the game it may either disqualify him or make it unquestionable that he belongs on the page.

Anyway, I'm bringing him up now since I have difficulty finding him in other parts of the thread.

@Lunacorva

That's a misuse of Bigger Bad. The moment the character gets physically involved they aren't the Bigger Bad. They're the Big Bad. I hate to harp on it, but that trope's seen near as much misuse as this one and Moral Event Horizon.

Anyway, I have a personal policy of never commenting on MLP darkfics.

@everyone

Speaking of fanfiction, I know I've mentioned this to Lightysnake and Occasional Exister in private, but anybody here ever read the ASOIAF fanfic Acts of Treason? If I were the kind of guy who proposed fanfic examples, I would consider proposing one from that fic, because the author managed the somewhat impressive feat of making Joffrey Baratheon worse.

He was brought up here, and cut for Offscreen Villainy, like you said.

In games with multiple endings (like a fighting game), can said endings count towards a character's heinousness even if they're non-canon? Like, one ending has the Big Bad send all of existence into a hell dimension for eternal torment, but then the sequel comes out and they went with the ending where the heroes knock the Big Bad out with a Batarang and tie him up?

As a side note, Noob Saibot doesn't count full stop. He had heroic qualities as the elder Sub Zero and Quan Chi explicitly removed his redeeming qualities when he died, failing the moral agency criteria. Khan and Chi only get off because most of their crimes are offscreen, while Noob has other reasons.

It'll be VERY interesting to see if MK X makes anyone a CM.
Joffrey worse? I'm intrigued (sidenote: someone needs to fix the Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas for his entry.

edited 29th Jan '15 1:07:14 PM by ACW

Speaking of SVU, here's a rewrite for Harris

• Bill Harris from season 12's "Behave" is responsible for nearly a dozen rapes. He developed a special interest on one of his victim, Vicki Sayers, and repeatedly tracked her down whenever she was on the verge of putting her life together.

After Quentin, I have a new candidate from the Bangsian (set in the afterlife) Vincenzo Natali horror movie Haunter, its villain the Pale Man.

Who is the Pale Man? What has he done?

The movie is mostly set in the afterlife, where a 1980s teenage girl named Lisa seems to be stuck in a "Groundhog Day" Loop before she discovers that she and her family have in fact been dead for decades and trapped in some intermediate plane of existence. In one of the loops the Pale Man aka Edgar Mullins appears to warn her not to try to reach the world of the living. Lisa eventually discovers the chronology of events when she finds a cave that Edgar built underneath the house containing an oven filled with human bones. Edgar is a serial killer who murdered several women between the 1930s and 1980s, when he died. When Lisa and her family moved into the house several years later, he possessed Lisa's father and made him kill his wife, daughter, and son along with himself. He's since kept the spirits of his victims trapped inside the house to continue tormenting them, for instance by reducing Lisa's family to rotting corpses in front of her; his first victim is stuck repeating the moment after she was kidnapped and murdered by Edgar. He means to continue his killing spree in the world of the living in 2013, possessing another father to make him kill his family as well. When Lisa visits Edgar's mind at the end, she sees how he murdered his own parents when he was a child; they later appear among the group of ghosts who send Edgar to hell at the end.

Heinous by the standards of the story?

He's the only villain, so he has no competition. That said, he's seen murdering his parents, was a serial killer of women when he was alive, keeps his victims's ghosts in a state of perpetual agony, and continues his killing spree beyond the grave and becomes a multiple family annihilator.

Freudian Excuse or redeeming traits?

None whatsoever. There's no excuse, no sympathetic trait to speak of and no reason for his crimes in life and death beyond pointless sadism.

Conclusion?

Seems as good a keep as any who've been put up before.

edited 29th Jan '15 1:38:46 PM by Morgenthaler

How can Joffery be worse ? What, is he a cannibal or something ?

I didn't think we could use fanon examples of canon CM's.

Pale Man looks like a keep.

edited 29th Jan '15 1:57:02 PM by Beast

Depends on how different they are.

Pale Man. Not sure how much of a personality he has, but we have Myers, so...

Oh, he talks plenty. He's just a bastard.

Works for me then. Lighty, you wanna do the Jakoda and Bloom writeups? I've got a bunch to do this weekend; might as well get 'em all at once.

@ACW & Beast

Personally kills Tyrion and Mace Tyrell while attempting to murder his nephew and Sansa's son, for one thing. Then he kills the kids too. I don't remember all the other details, but the fic let him make it to his later teens, so he got the chance to ratchet up the nasty. I'd reread the fic, but it's down as the author is working on a rewrite.

Anyway, not proposing him for the list. Just saying that it's one of the few fanfic examples of note that I could think of.

edited 29th Jan '15 3:31:23 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Yeesh.

As Lightysnake and Exister both know, Justified has gone into its last season. No idea what direction anything's going to go in, but we may want to keep an eye on new villains Katherine Hale and Ty Hunter. Though admittedly, the show's heinous standard is pretty high.

On Nightmare Eclipse, In the Finale arc (which is still ongoing), her five "friens" appear in a sub arc (a B plot if you will) where we see where they ended up after being blasted through time. all but Fluttershy's evil counterpart have made a Heel–Face Turn and admit that what they did with Eclipse was horrible. They all but flat out say that they now hate her. We also get a flashback that shows how she "recruited"Rainbow's counterpart: she killed her friends and stole Rainbow's free will, basicly lobotomizing her and forcing her to be her minion. It is also stated that she forced Spike's counterpart to aid her by threatening to kill his version of Rarity. After he joined her, she killed her anyway. The only time she is actually shown to care about her "friends" is in a side story called "Nightmare's House" that the author, Alexwarlorn, has said may or may not be canon. Since it may not be canon, we can ignore it.

So yeah .

edited 29th Jan '15 5:03:52 PM by bobg

for the Pale Man, definitely, and with the information provided I'll give Nightmare Eclipse a too, sure why not.

Was there any specific reason why Grubba from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door was DQ'd? I know he fails the heinous standard compared to the Shadow Queen and I'm not suggesting him as an example, but what was the exact reason why he didn't count? I recently watched an LP of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door and was wondering why he wasn't proposed constantly, considering he's a lot more threatening than the other chapter villains with the obvious exception of the Shadow Queen. I also have an additional reason why he doesn't count, too.

He's genuinely Affably Evil throughout the entire chapter, even when you find him out for the Jerkass he is, and a Graceful Loser when he's defeated by Mario. But I'd like to know why he was taken down. Again, I'm not thinking he should be put back up, I'm just curious.

You just said it. He's a Graceful Loser and Affably Evil, and isn't as heinous as the Big Bad. What else is there to say?

@34955: Good write-up for Lewis.

@34961: Nightmare Eclipse was brought up before, and I voted no for her because it was mentioned she truly considered the other evil main characters her friends. Since others have confirmed her "care" for her friends is selfish and sadistic, I'll change to a yes.

@34963: Actually I don't know anything about My Little Pony. I just voted down on Nightmare Eclipse last time because the last time she was brought up, in the very same entry that proposed, the poster said she considered the other main characters turned evil friends. Apparently that's wrong, so...

@34970: Pale Man sounds like a keep. Btw, saw Lucy so I'll add another yes vote on Jang. Side note: What an enjoyably awful film. Seriously, entertainingly bad.

edited 29th Jan '15 7:53:09 PM by OccasionalExister

What is with all of these MLP darkfic examples? I feel like this fanfic (Pony POV) is just making every villain a Complete Monster for no real reason except for shock value.

While we're at it, let's make the entire cast of ponies monstrous, abusive assholes with no redeeming qualities and have them fight against something even worse. I wouldn't be surprised if a Darkfic actually succeeded in doing that.

Seriously, imo I'd like all the darkfic examples to be cut because they're too ludicrous. Just cutting the Rainbow Factory, Cupcakes, and Cheerilee's garden examples just isn't enough. I think Pony POV is purposely making everything that's not a hero a CM, so if there's yet another example I'm thinking we should just stop accepting examples altogether.

I don't think a simple children's show should have so many fanfics that are gorier than your average Silent Hill game.

Also was there any real reason why Andross, Ridley (outside of the manga), and M. Bison were cut? They certainly have the deeds to qualify.

I'm going to repost in its entirety the response I made to the last (or one of the last) posts along these lines:

That said, I will abstain on the character in question, as it sounds like her arc is still ongoing. If the fic ends without any disqualifying factors appearing, I'll reconsider then.

Actually, it's not a Darkfic, it's an adventure theme fanfic with very dark villains. It has too many funny and heartwarming moments to be a Darkfic. The author Alexwarlorn insists this. And none of the heroes are turned evil in this fanfic. Eclipse is a different version of Twilight from an alternate future. Twilight herself is still on the side of good. And Discord? the work was started before his redemption.

@ Nxjll, actually her arc was finished long ago. We just got a posthumerous flashback showing how she "recruited" her "friends". And no, she did not get any redemption.

edited 30th Jan '15 4:38:22 AM by bobg

@ Occasional Exister: Yeah, it's definitely a movie that only requires part of your brain to watch.

Here's an entry I found on the Fan Works page that I'm not sure on. Looking at previous discussion in this thread, I don't think it's ever been under actual scrutiny before it was rewritten.

• The Vocaloid fanfic From Concert to Chaos: Miku Zatsune and Rin Arakawa had respectively been dating Mikuo and Len until the boys became disillusioned by the girls' rotten behavior and broke off the relationships. Zatsune and Arakawa absolutely refused to believe it was their fault, and instead convinced themselves that Mikuo and Len were somehow responsible and they decided that the two would have to pay big time. So during the live Tanabata concert, they mercilessly and senselessly attack them on the stage, cut off the other Vocaloids from the stage with an electric barrier, and trap the 16,000 fans inside their seats with a 2 meter high wall of fire. It's clear that they are enjoying every moment of their victims' suffering. When they are arrested, Zatsune manages to escape from jail, charges over to the hospital to kill Mikou and Len, and only relents after she is shot two times and has a gun is pointed right at her head.

And the old entry on the YMMV page:

• Complete Monsters: Miku Zatsune and Rin Arakawa, for certain.
  • To clarify: Not long before the events of the story, they had been dating Mikuo and Len. But the guys became disillusioned with their rotten behavior quickly, and soon broke off the relationships. Unfortunately, Zatsune and Arakawa absolutely refused to believe that they were at fault and instead convinced themselves that Miku and Rin were somehow responsible for the end of the relationship and that they would have to pay dearly. So right in the middle of the concert and in front of over 16,000 fans (more than 5,000 of whom were children), they made their move by brutally attacking Miku and Rin on stage, leaving them both badly injured.
  • But that was just the tip of the iceberg. On top of that, through Zatsune's insane amounts of planning, they also activated an electric barrier around the stage, preventing the other Vocaloids from interfering (nearly electrocuting a few of the guys). And to top that off, they even trapped the audience in a 2 meter high wall of fire, which injured nearly 900 completely innocent people.

Now since this was rewritten by a regular contributor I might give this the benefit of the doubt, but what's there really skirts the line between calculated mass murder and just being venal characters with two attempted murders on their belts (and since this is a duo, each of whom has a history with the 2 heroes, I suppose we can scale that down to 1). Their big qualifying act is apparently trapping a child audience at a concert to force them to watch two people get beaten up. My sticking point it that it extrapolates "mass murder of children", when I'm not sure if that was really their plan, especially since no one dies and they don't seem to follow up on it.

edited 30th Jan '15 4:56:56 AM by Morgenthaler