Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

I am going to give a somewhat late to Erich Von Raitenau, Vidian, the Chairman, Selena and Mischa .

I am also going to say to Dennis and the Sheriff.

I would like to ask once again for opinions on Time Master from Freedom Force, I have two up votes for him and would like more opinion before I consider doing a write up for him. Here is my original effort post on him:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1300#32493

Here's a link to Von Raitenau's Motive Rant, if you're curious.

@ Scraggle, Felix is not ordering anything. He is following orders from his employer, The Chairman from previous seasons, and just enjoys it more than his partner and the rest of Team Black. As far as I recall he doesn't order the rest of Team Black to do anything, and anything he would order is just passed down from his employer anyway.

@ Satoshi Bakura, everything you said just makes Felix an asshole, that is not a Complete Monster. Twisting the knife is just being mean and spiteful, that doesn't change a thing. Him playing the New Republic is irrelevant because that is what he's being expressly ordered and paid to do. Control ordered it, and would have gotten someone else to do it if Felix wasn't around.

And this doesn't change the fact that his heinous acts is to get Chorus wiped out in a Civil War, which is a crime we can apply to 21 people.

But as it stands we have about 7 for cutting, 3 for keeping. Does anyone else want to chip in?

I've gotten on board with cutting Felix.

TV Rulez, go ahead, just please do NOT cut list.

I'll be switching back to my then.

edited 26th Nov '14 12:54:12 AM by Scraggle

Fine, I guess. Not a monster yet, but definitely a major asshole. But we shouldn't completely throw Felix away, but rather put him in purgatory, cause he's still around, still has crossed the Moral Event Horizon, and one day, he might do something truly heinous.

And about Control getting someone else to do it, even if they could get someone else to do it, I'm not sure if they would do it to the degree Felix did. Not a monster yet, but if he gets a big enough push later on, he will become a monster. BTW, the 13th season will probably air late spring/early summer.

edited 26th Nov '14 3:56:53 AM by SatoshiBakura

HT: I don't believe the Mist counts. He seems at times, more a broken old man than anything, and at the end, he accepts his death with a touch of Worthy Opponent with Ted Knight. The two even die shaking hands

Also, as despicable as The Mist is, his attempt to destroy Opal City is motivated largely by the death of his son, whom Jack Knight killed in retribution for murdering his older brother. While he has nothing but contempt for his daughter Nash, he lavishes praise on his son, and while he doesn't care about killing Nash and Jack's son, the reason is because he hates the Knight bloodline just that much.

In the end...gotta say nope. I think the hatred towards him is (justifiably) earned by his murder of his own daughter.

I also have no issue with revisiting Felix if he returns. Always the next time.

Well, I've mostly despoilered Anime And Manga A To H and gotten rid of some gravedancing.

We should also keep Dr. Whitehall from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. on lookout after episode 8 (where it's revealed that he killed a woman to find out the secret of her immortality, and that woman turned out to be Skye's mother, turning her father into The Sociopath). Not actually nominating him, but just saying that we should keep watch his actions later on to see if he gets anymore monstrous.

edited 26th Nov '14 8:41:12 AM by SatoshiBakura

At the very least, depending on how bad his actions are, there may be a case for cutting Clairvoyant.

Is Lorne from Neverwinter Nights 2 disqualified since he carried out the massacre of Ember on Garius' orders?

Why cut Clairvoyent ? Does introducing a worse villain negate a previous CM is defeated negate their status or something ?

Also since I've been giving no and plenty of for the killers in Shark Night here's my entry for them.

• Shark Night: Dennis Crimm functions as the de-facto head of the snuff film operation involving setting sharks loose in a local lake to get touring teenagers killed. At the time of the movie, he's already made at least forty six snuff films to make money. When the protagonist Sara and her friends arrive at her home town to visit her families vacation house on the lake, Dennis takes personal interest in her because of their past. After the first shark attack, Dennis offers to take a boy in girl in the group back to the mainland, but half way there, Dennis reveals he's behind the attacks before shooting the boy into the water, and forcing the girl to strip before she herself is pushed in with the sharks. When the truth gets to Sara and her boyfriend Nick, Dennis leave Nick to be killed by the corrupt sheriff and kidnap Sara, before he and his friend Red throw her dog overboard. Dennis reveals his motive to Sara - that he was bitter about their breakup when she left for college and that she accidently scarred his face in a jet ski accident. The Freudian Excuse is subverted because it had nothing to do with him becoming a serial killer, just a reason for revenge. Dennis places Sara into a shark cage with a great white on the hunt, and drops it into the water. When Nick comes to Sara's rescue, Dennis kills his own henchman Red just to catch Nick off guard. His recklessness amounts to diving into the water with Nick and trying to strangle him as he tries to get the cage open.
  • Sheriff Greg Sabin presents himself as a very friendly small town sheriff but he is in fact in on Dennis' snuff scheme. When Sara and Nick's friends are picked off by the sharks, Sabin arrives at their vacation house and tries to poison them. When that plan falls flat, he simply hands Sara over to Dennis. Sabin then tries to torture Nick by dunking him into the lake with a tiger shark, and joyfully telling him about their operations. His reason ? Because he hates teenagers for looking and talking down to him. This makes even less sense since the latest group of teenagers have been pretty civil to him.

Pretty good, but you need to give Dennis a double asterisk bullet point. Also change the second to last sentence to:"His reason is because he hates teenagers for looking and talking down to him."

• Shark Night:
  • Dennis Crimm functions as the de-facto head of the snuff film operation involving setting sharks loose in a local lake to get touring teenagers killed. At the time of the movie, he's already made at least forty six snuff films to make money. When the protagonist Sara and her friends arrive at her home town to visit her families vacation house on the lake, Dennis takes personal interest in her because of their past. After the first shark attack, Dennis offers to take a boy in girl in the group back to the mainland, but half way there, Dennis reveals he's behind the attacks before shooting the boy into the water, and forcing the girl to strip before she herself is pushed in with the sharks. When the truth gets to Sara and her boyfriend Nick, Dennis leave Nick to be killed by the corrupt sheriff and kidnap Sara, before he and his friend Red throw her dog overboard. Dennis reveals his motive to Sara - that he was bitter about their breakup when she left for college and that she accidently scarred his face in a jet ski accident. The Freudian Excuse is subverted because it had nothing to do with him becoming a serial killer, just a reason for revenge. Dennis places Sara into a shark cage with a great white on the hunt, and drops it into the water. When Nick comes to Sara's rescue, Dennis kills his own henchman Red just to catch Nick off guard. His recklessness amounts to diving into the water with Nick and trying to strangle him as he tries to get the cage open.
  • Sheriff Greg Sabin presents himself as a very friendly small town sheriff but he is in fact in on Dennis' snuff scheme. When Sara and Nick's friends are picked off by the sharks, Sabin arrives at their vacation house and tries to poison them. When that plan falls flat, he simply hands Sara over to Dennis. Sabin then tries to torture Nick by dunking him into the lake with a tiger shark, and joyfully telling him about their operations. His reason for doing so is because he hates teenagers for looking and talking down to him.

Also just a heads up, a couple months ago I brought up a potential example from The Originals and The Vampire Diaries named Mikael. Now I'm not bringing him up yet as there is one last thing that needs to be checked out before I make my decision. Also there are two examples from both shows that I also plan on bringing up soon, Dahlia from The Originals and Malachi Parker from The Vampire Diaries.

edited 26th Nov '14 10:44:20 AM by Beast

edited 26th Nov '14 2:00:14 PM by ACW

I'd suggest for Sheriff Sabin, adding a line at the end to this effect: "Despite Sabin's claims of being 'looked down on,' none of the main characters or their friends ever treat Sabin as anything but a friend beforehand, making it likely that any such slights exist only in Sabin's head."

Here is my rough draft write up for the Chairman of Nightrise:

• The final book Oblivion gives us the new chairman of Nightrise. The chairman is introduced by holding a press conference with ten thousand members of Nightrise. The chairman says that they will be taken away to have their limbs cut off and replaced with weapons for the battle with the five. When one member refuses, the chairman has him shot dead and than sends guards in to beat up everyone and take them away by force. The chairman orders his second in command, Jonas Mortlake, to make Scott do a Face–Heel Turn so that without him, the five will never be united, telling Jonas that if he fails, he will suffer the same fate as the other members of Nightrise. When Matt and Richard are captured, the chairman has Matt crucified and tortured by having his skin flayed and his bones broken. The chairman tries to kill Richard in front of Matt, stating that Matt will be Forced to Watch his best friend die, and will than continue to be tortured forever.

edited 26th Nov '14 12:05:32 PM by bobg

Lovely fellow. You said he gets impaled on a stalagmite? Nice.

@ Hamburger Time: Don't feel too sorry for those ten thousand members of Nightrise though, After all, they were part of an evil organization bent on unleashing evil monsters into the world to kill everyone. Of course, this could be considered a case of Alas, Poor Villain.

You wanna know what's really infuriating about this guy? He's Faux Affably Evil. Yep, the whole time he's telling Richard his plan, he's trying to pass himself off as a gentalman. He claims that there is no real evil in the world because evil is a concept created for stories so they can have a clear hero and villain. He claims he is not evil, and tries to pass himself off as neutral.

edited 26th Nov '14 12:35:14 PM by bobg

Hawaii Knut: The issue is Lorne has some mitigating circumstances and he comes off more of a tool of Black Garius. Would you like to propose Garius?

From Drowtales, for Sene'Kha:

• Sene'Kha Vloz'Vress was the Drow responsible for turning the Vloz'Vress from a quirky Ragtag Band of Misfits into a far more sinister organization via manipulation of its super powerful, but child-minded ruler Kharla. Sene'Kha uses Kharla to kill her opposition or turn them into living dolls while using the Vloz'Vress as an expendable force. Sene'Kha even has them bind demons to themselves as practical suicide bombs and when finally captured, it is revealed she had planned to annihilate the vast majority of the City of Chel and rule over the remainder.

• Bayonetta: The Evil God Loptr in part 2 is the Evil Twin of Loki, both having split off from the original creator god Aesir. Revealed as responsible for the evil of Father Balder from the first game, Loptr murdered his beloved, the Umbra Witch Rosa and framed Loki for it to send Balder on a hunt for vengeance. Loptr manipulates Bayonetta and her allies while causing death and destruction until he can seize the ultimate powers of creation for himself and recreate himself as the ultimate god anew. His evil even infects Balder to turn him from a noble warrior into the genocidal monster from the first game.

• Star Wars: A New Dawn brings us Count Denetrius Vidian, a bureaucrat and manager in charge of overseeing the Empire's factories. Vidian demonstrates his authority by working his subordinates to death and beats a union boss to death when he protests. Vidian shows a penchant for torturing his enemies and plans to mine one moon for all the materials it has, even though the excessive mining will destroy the moon and its planet which will kill all the beings there. Vidian simply plans to blame a rival noble for the disaster. His worst moment comes when an entirely competent factory manager protests Vidian's demands are impossible. He proceeds to throw her into a vat of acid and angrily tells her to 'dissolve quickly' so he can get back to work before beating her husband to death when he attempts to arrest Vidian.

• The Monarchies of God: Aruan is the ultimate village of the saga. An ancient sorcerer and werewolf who made a kingdom of the mysterious western continent, Aruan desires to subjugate all of the kingdoms of the world into his slaves or to obliterate them if he cannot control them. Fomenting a holy war amongst he Ramusian kingdoms by causing a schism in the church, Aruan also uses his werewolf agents to murder many people while corrupting others into his agents. In the final book, Aruan steps from the shadows, having entire cities slaughtered by his lycanthropes if they resist him in his quest to reign as the supreme being.

edited 26th Nov '14 12:40:39 PM by Lightysnake

Yes. He do lead a cult of necromancers that voilates graveyards and old battlefield in order to raise an army that could overrun the west-coast, deals with orcs and probably worse to push his agenda, sends Lorne to said massacre meant as a frame-up, clearly views his minions as tools and intends to betray the King of Shadow in order to gain more power.

edited 26th Nov '14 1:05:00 PM by Hawaii_Knut

Just out of curiosity, how many intended-to-be-sympathetic villains have made it onto the list through sheer force of bad writing? I remember the guy from Red Zone Cuba, an Uwe Boll character, and didn't Ambar say he found one that actually predated the RZC character?

• Shark Night:
  • Dennis Crimm functions as the de-facto head of the snuff film operation involving setting sharks loose in a local lake to get touring teenagers killed. At the time of the movie, he's already made at least forty-six snuff films to make money. When Sara and her friends arrive at her home town to visit her family’s vacation house on the lake, Dennis takes personal interest in her because of their past. After the first shark attack, Dennis offers to take a boy and girl in the group back to the mainland, but halfway there, Dennis reveals he's behind the attacks before shooting the boy into the water, and forcing the girl to strip before she herself is pushed in with the sharks. When the truth gets to Sara and her boyfriend Nick, Dennis leave Nick to be killed by the corrupt sheriff and kidnap Sara, before he and his friend Red throw her dog overboard. Dennis reveals his motive to Sara: he was bitter about their breakup when she left for college and she accidently scarred his face in a jet ski accident. However, this had nothing to do with him becoming a serial killer. Dennis places Sara into a shark cage with a great white on the hunt, and drops it into the water. When Nick comes to Sara's rescue, Dennis kills his own henchman Red just to catch Nick off guard. His recklessness includes diving into the water with Nick and trying to strangle him as he tries to get the cage open.
  • Sheriff Greg Sabin presents himself as a very friendly small town sheriff but he is in fact in on Dennis's snuff scheme. When Sara and Nick's friends are picked off by the sharks, Sabin arrives at their vacation house and tries to poison them. When that plan fails, he simply hands Sara over to Dennis. Sabin then tries to torture Nick by dunking him into the lake with a tiger shark, and joyfully telling him about their operations. His motive is he hates teenagers for looking and talking down to him, even though none of the main characters or their friends ever treat Sabin as anything but a friend beforehand, making it likely that any such slights exist only in Sabin's head, or that he is projecting onto the characters what other teenagers have done.
• Bayonetta 2: Loptr is the evil twin of Loki, both having split off from the original creator god Aesir. Revealed as responsible for the evil of Father Balder from the first game, Loptr murdered Balder’s beloved, the Umbra Witch Rosa and framed Loki for it to send Balder on a hunt for vengeance, as his evil plan required Loki out of the way. Loptr manipulates Bayonetta and her allies while causing death and destruction until he can seize the ultimate powers of creation for himself and recreate himself as the ultimate god anew. His evil even infects Balder to turn him from a noble warrior into the genocidal monster from the first game.
• The Monarchies of God: Aruan, an ancient sorcerer and werewolf who made a kingdom of the mysterious western continent, desires to subjugate all of the kingdoms of the world into his slaves or to obliterate them if he cannot control them. Fomenting a holy war amongst he Ramusian kingdoms by causing a schism in the church, Aruan also uses his werewolf agents to murder many people while corrupting others into his agents. In the final book, Aruan steps from the shadows, having entire cities slaughtered by his lycanthropes if they resist him in his quest to reign as the supreme being.
• The fifth and final book Oblivion gives us the new chairman of Nightrise. The chairman is introduced by holding a press conference with ten thousand members of Nightrise, and says that they will be taken away to have their limbs cut off and replaced with weapons for the battle with the five. When one member refuses, the chairman has him shot dead before sending guards in to beat everyone up and take them away by force. The chairman orders his second-in-command, Jonas Mortlake (Susan’s son), to make Scott do a Face–Heel Turn so that without him, the five will never be united, telling Jonas that if he fails, he will suffer the same fate as the other members of Nightrise. When Matt and Richard are captured, the chairman has Matt crucified and tortured by having his skin flayed and his bones broken. The chairman tries to kill Richard in front of Matt, stating that Matt will be Forced to Watch his best friend die, and will than continue to be tortured forever.
• Sene'Kha Vloz'Vress was the Drow responsible for turning the Vloz'Vress from a quirky Ragtag Band of Misfits into a far more sinister organization via manipulation of its super powerful, but child-minded ruler Kharla. Sene'Kha uses Kharla to kill her opposition or turn them into living dolls while using the Vloz'Vress as an expendable force. Sene'Kha even has them bind demons to themselves as practical suicide bombs and when finally captured, it is revealed she had planned to annihilate the vast majority of the City of Chel and rule over the remainder.

edited 29th Nov '14 1:12:30 AM by ACW