Misused: I Liked It Better When It Sucked

I Liked It Better When It Sucked is supposed to be about works that were considered So Bad, It's Good getting changed and people considering the new one less enjoyable because it is still bad, but not laughably so. People seem to forget that it only applies for when people liked the original as So Bad, It's Good and talk about people preferring works with lower production values for unironic merit. I went and removed a bunch of misuse and bolded the section clarifying that the original must be So Bad, It's Good a few days ago with approval from Ask The Tropers, but this morning two new misuses got added, one of which is for a series that I removed misuse for (albeit a completely different entry, so it seems more like the person added it without knowing it had been deleted before rather than trying to add back something they felt had wrongly been cut). The page quote is also related to one of the misuses I cut, but that's not as important right now. In hindsight I probably should have come here first to begin with but anyway, I think this trope could use some repair.

Wick Check (at least for YMMV pages because I assume that's what I'm supposed to be searching through):

• YMMV.Action Park: About excitement, no mention of ironic love.
• YMMV.Akira: Is about something bad that people preferred over the later, but not for ironic reasons.
• YMMV.Be More Chill: Not ironic.
• YMMV.Big Rigs Over The Road Racing: About mocked aspects being changed while still not offering a good product. First correct usage so far.
• YMMV.Burzum: Maybe? No mention of So Bad, It's Good but it's not trying to argue but actual merit.
• YMMV.Castle In The Sky: No ironic love.
• YMMV.Castlevania Symphony Of The Night: Correct usage.
• YMMV.Eurovision Song Contest: The first part is correct usage, the second bullet is a maybe.
• YMMV.Family Feud: Not ironic.
• YMMV.Fire Emblem Genealogy Of The Holy War: Correct, but does the trope really apply for fan translations?
• YMMV.Fire Emblem Thracia 776: Only the part about Kempf's dialogue could be considered ironic love.
• YMMV.Flash Gordon 2007: Zero Context Example, but the description from the main I Liked It Better When It Sucked page is correct usage.
• YMMV.Freddie As FRO 7: Correct, but not enough context.
• YMMV.Godzilla 2014: An "older special effects are better" Nostalgia Filter example. I cut an entry from the main I Liked It Better When It Sucked page that was just this word-for-word.
• YMMV.Godzilla Vs Mechagodzilla II: Maybe? Did people consider the original dub So Bad, It's Good or did they prefer it for its tone? I can't tell.
• YMMV.Goth Nebula: A pothole with correct usage. On an unrelated note, that page has a lot of complaining.
• YMMV.Guyver: Correct usage, or at least I think it is because the first movie in question is listed under So Bad, It's Good despite that aspect not being mentioned in the I Liked It Better When It Sucked example.
• YMMV.John K Stuff: The first bullet is correct, the second one is not.
• YMMV.Jon Tron: Misused pothole, no mention of So Bad, It's Good.
• YMMV.Land Of The Lost: I mean it calls this one So Bad, It's Good too in a Zero Context Example and the entry the trope is potholed into doesn't give enough context. Misuse?
• YMMV.Little Shop Of Horrors: About actual merit, not ironic love. There's an entry about this on the main I Liked It Better When It Sucked page that I should have cut in hindsight but will wait and see how we decide to repair this trope.
• YMMV.Manos The Hands Of Fate: Zero Context Example, doesn't explain what the restoration changes to make it less So Bad, It's Good.
• Maradonia Saga: Correct usage, although the final sentence of the entry feels unneeded.
• YMMV.Mega Man X and YMMV.Mega Man X 5: Both cover the same correct usage.
• YMMV.Minecraft: Correct usage.
• YMMV.Musashi Gundoh: Also correct.
• YMMV.Mystery Science Theater 3000: Misuse, belongs in They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.
• YMMV.Never Let Me Down: Maybe?
• YMMV.Ogre Battle: I don't even see where the "bad" comes from for this one.
• YMMV.One Direction: Again, no "bad".
• YMMV.Pokemon Origins: Correct, at least if you consider cheese "bad".
• YMMV.Pokemon Vietnamese Crystal: Correct usage.
• YMMV.Princess Maker: Correct usage too.
• YMMV.Rebecca Black: Correct usage.
• YMMV.Rebuild Of Evangelion: I'm starting to wonder if a lot of the people adding entries for this trope bothered to read the trope description or its laconic page.
• YMMV.Resident Evil 1: Depends on the context of the original because I can't tell if the Narm Charm was ironic or not.
• YMMV.Resident Evil Musicals: No ironic love mentioned.
• YMMV.Rocket Robin Hood: Can definitely qualify based one of the quotes about it in the quotes section for I Liked It Better When It Sucked, but needs more context.
• YMMV.Ronnie James Dio: Nope.
• YMMV.Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band: Sigh.
• YMMV.Silent Hill 2: Bad becoming even worse, but the original bad wasn't So Bad, It's Good.
• YMMV.Sonic Boom: Correct.
• YMMV.Spider Man: Again, this trope is not "actual merit found in works with lower production values".
• YMMV.Star Wars: They Changed It, Now It Sucks!
• YMMV.Street Fighter: Correct.
• YMMV.Super Robot Wars: Misused pothole,and why are there The Scrappy entries about things other than characters there?
• YMMV.Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: I cut a misuse from the main trope page talking about the same thing.
• YMMV.The KLF: Where's the change?
• YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda C Di Games: Correct.
• YMMV.The Nostalgia Critic: One of the same entries I cut from the main page for misuse.
• YMMV.The Prayer Warriors: Correct.
• YMMV.The Shaggs: Maybe?
• YMMV.The Stooges: Zero Context Example
• YMMV.Titanic The Legend Goes On: Can count, but after cutting a lot of excess fluff.
• YMMV.Transformers Headmasters: Correct. Well, sort of. It's people seeing the So Bad, It's Good version first and then being given the regular "better" version afterward with it as the only option. Same situation with the previous one too.
• YMMV.Trapped In The Closet: Correct.
• YMMV.Velvet Underground: Not ironic.
• YMMV.X Men: Correct.
• YMMV.Xanadu: The entry about this on the main trope page is correct, this one needs extra content.
• YMMV.Yakuza 0: Not So Bad, It's Good original.

So... yea. It seems like quite a lot of people have reinterpreted this trope as being an alternative to They Changed It, Now It Sucks! and Nostalgia Filter for works that once had lower production values and forget the important So Bad, It's Good aspect.

Sorry for the wait, ~Kirby0189

Wick check looks alright; since it's a YMMV trope, checking YMMV pages is a smart move. Opening for discussion.

In favor of a rename to aid clarity.

BTW, what you saw in the Titanic example is what was left after I cleaned it up.

Yeah, I think a rename would be good, but I can't think of any ideas at the moment.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 6th 2020 at 1:47:00 PM

Maybe rename it something like "The Un-Improvement" or something like that but more clever?

Edited by Florien on Feb 6th 2020 at 2:43:01 AM

Wouldn't that invite Complaining About Improvements You Didnt Like?

Good point.

Neglected to mention this (despite going through Music.David Bowie's ZCEs recently), but the wick on YMMV.Never Let Me Down appears to be correct. The posthumous remix album from 2018 was intended to improve what was considered one of Bowie's worst albums, and it's saying people thought the original version was So Bad, It's Good.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 6th 2020 at 5:17:11 AM

Just a random rename idea to throw out there "It Was Better When We Could Mock It"

Better As Snark Bait?

&I like those better. I think both would be good to put on a crowner once the thread gets to that stage.

I like Better As Snark Bait.

Better As Snark Bait sounds good.

Wait. Snark Bait is something people watch just to make fun of it. Doesn't mean they think it's So Bad, It's Good.

So should we go with the "It Was Better When We Could Mock It" idea I suggested earlier?

EDIT: Ok wait, I just realized that it has the same problem. How about "It Was Better When The Bad Was Good"?

Edited by Kirby0189 on Feb 8th 2020 at 6:22:43 AM

Or Better When It Was "So Bad, It's Good"?

So Bad, It's Good and Snark Bait are forms of Bile Fascination, so maybe something along the lines of "Better When It Was Bile"?

Works for me.

EDIT: Wait, we might want to adjust it to get the "originally So Bad, It's Good" part across. We could just add one word or something.

Edited by Kirby0189 on Feb 8th 2020 at 2:16:24 PM

Better When It Was So Bad Its Good might work. I considered suggesting I Liked It Better When It Was So Bad Its Good, but reconsidered when I realized it failed the second and third points of Clear, Concise, Witty. Cutting out a few words improves it.

Better When It Was So Bad Its Good sounds good since it gets the meaning across better.

It's very clunky, though.

So Bad, It Was Better?

I like So Bad it was Better as an alternative.