Misused: Base Breaker

Base Breaker is supposed to be about divisive characters. But I've seen it used either for when elements of a work have divide people (e.g. Broken Base), divisive works themselves (e.g. Love It or Hate It), complaints about a character or just a mention of a character being hated with no mention of whether they have any fans or not (e.g. The Scrappy).

Also a lot of the time I see an example that's technically written correct - in that the character inspires a Love It or Hate It reaction in the audience. But one of the reactions is written shorter taking up a single sentence/maybe half-a-sentence and the other reaction being longer - about a paragraph or a run-on sentence. This usually due to a Natter or Word Cruft (e.g. It doesn't help that....)

Wick Check:

YMMV.Agents Of SHIELD: Correct. Although there's quite a bit of Word Cruft, Natter and Example Indentation under Skye's entry and I think the first second level bullet point can be removed.

YMMV.All New X Men:

• The first example I'm uncertain about, it mentions that most like Jean Grey but then mentions that how much readers tend to like her varies - which I suppose techniquly implies there's some detractors, but the example as written comes off as very wish-washy. So I think that if it is an example then it might need to be rewritten slightly.
• The second example seems to belong more to Broken Base, since it's talking about a character's appearance rather than the character himself. And I'm farly certain the last sentence counts as Natter.

YMMV.Animorphs:

• The first example seems to be either Broken Base or possibly Contested Sequel.
• The second example is Correct but still contains a bits of Word Cruft that need fixing.

YMMV.Avas Demon: Zero Context Example

YMMV.Ben 10: Correct, but could use a bit more detail.

YMMV.Boku Wa Tomodachi Ga Sukunai: Not an example, shows complaints only.

YMMV.Calvin And Hobbes The Series: Not an example, talks about a characters inclusion raising eyebrows.

YMMV.Clash Of The Titans: Correct.

YMMV.Criminal Minds: Zero Context Example.

YMMV.Deathstroke: Not sure, it's talking about the character's been handled in recent years, rather than the character overall. I think the last sentence and first half-a-sentence could probably be removed if the example is correct.

YMMV.Donkey Kong 64: Not sure, the example is written correctly. But the negative part only talks about how the character listed is a Replacement Scrappy. I know Scrappies can't be Base Breakers but can Replacement Scrappies?

YMMV.Elementary: Correct.

WMG.Fairy Tail: Correct since it does describe that the character is both liked and hated, but are we allowed to link to YMMV items in Wild Mass Guessing, I know we can't on the main work pages - unless it’s an In-Universe example.

YMMV.Final Fantasy IV: Correct.

YMMV.Fresh Off The Boat: Not an example, its slashed on the same line as Broken Base (e.g. Base Breaker/Broken Base).

Headscratchers.Glee Characters: Not an example, it's a pothole talking about a scene rather than a character.

YMMV.Gustav Mahler: Not an example, seems closer to Broken Base.

YMMV.Hemlock Grove: Correct, but still has some Word Cruft that be gotten ridden of.

YMMV.Imperfect Metamorphosis:

• The first example is Not an example, shows complaints only.
• The second example is also Not an example, seems to be describing Love It or Hate It.

YMMV.Jessica Nigri: Not an example, shows complaints only and appears to be troping a real-life person. Also has a second-level-bulletpoint Broken Base example attached to it that is also being misused for the same reasons as above.

YMMV.Katanagatari: Not an example, is complaining about an episode that apparently upset the fandom.

YMMV.Lab Rats: Not sure, the character is listed as under The Scrappy further down the page, but this entry mentions that the character got more likeable during later seasons, but still has detractors.

YMMV.Little Brother: Not an example, shows complaints only.

YMMV.Magic The Gathering: Not an example, seems to be talking about divisive elements rather than characters and doesn't go into details - just saying that their contentious.

LightNovel.Mayo Chiki: Not sure; it's an In-Universe example, but I can't tell whether it's being used correctly.

YMMV.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED: Not an example, its potholed into an example for The Scrappy - which someone should probably check to see whether it's an example.

Funny.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic: Not an example, it's a pothole that seems to match Broken Base more, also I'm not sure whether YMMV items are allowed to be potholed to in the Funny pages.

VideoGame.Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations: Not an example, it's a pothole on the main work page, it seems closer to Broken Base from what it's describing and the paragraph it's part of is a second-level-bulletpoint Example Indentation Natter.

YMMV.N Sync: Seems to be troping a real-life person and contains second-level-bulletpoint Natter.

Patron Saint: Not an example it's a pothole on a trope page, it seems closer to Broken Base from what it's describing and the paragraph it's part of is a second-level-bulletpoint Example Indentation Natter.

YMMV.Pokemon Genesect And The Legend Awakened: Both examples appear to be correct, although Mewtwo is also listed under The Scrappy which isn't aloud and the other example has some Natter that needs deleting. Also on a minor tangent, Mewtwo has its own folder dedicated to the reactions towards it, is that kosher?

TriumphantExample.P To R: Not an example, pothole outside of YMMV.

YMMV.Regular Show: Apart from the last 2 examples which seem to be more Broken Base, the examples appear to be Correct. Although there’s some Example Indentation that needs fixing.

Characters.Ru Pauls Drag Race Season 4: Not an example, aside from the trope being included in a sentence outside of YMMV, the sentence it's a part of appears to be troping a real-life person (actually the entire page appears to be troping real-life people, but that another issue)...

YMMV.Sense 8: Correct, although the entire first sentence apart from the character's name can be deleted as Word Cruft.

YMMV.Sonic Adventure: Not an example, the example is a second-level-bulletpoint underneath The Scrappy, explaining that the character actually has gained fans in recent years. Normally I would suggest merging the two examples into one single-level-bulletpoint Base Breaker example, except The Scrappy example as written is currently a Zero Context Example.

YMMV.Starfox Adventures: Not an example, shows complaints only.

YMMV.Super Junior: Not an example, potholed around the words not popular in a sentence in the Germans Love David Hasselhoff example.

YMMV.Taylor Swift: Not an example, is part of a sentence under Critical Dissonance, describing an album not a character.

YMMV.The Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes The Avengers:

• First example is technically Correct, but the like for the character seems to only consist of the last sentence and the first half-a-sentence establishing that despite being a Fan Favourite there's some Hype Backlash towards her. Probably needs re-writing a bit.
• Second example is Not an example, seems to be talking about the Voice Actor rather than the character himself.

YMMV.The Haves And The Have Nots: Correct.

WMG.The Muppets: Not an example, potholed to a character, still have no idea whether we're allowed to link to YMMV items in Wild Mass Guessing.

YMMV.The Super Hero Squad Show: Not an example, it's part of a sentence under Awesome Music that describes the show as a Base Breaker rather than any character in the show.

Film.Tokumei Sentai Gobusters Returns Vs Dobutsu Sentai Gobusters: Not an example, it's a pothole in the work page description about the show the film is based on allegedly not being considered a real Sentai.

YMMV.Treetopia: The entire first-level-bulletpoint is Natter. The actually example depends on whether it's troping a real-person or said person's Alter-Ego Acting. If it the former then it's not an example, if it's the latter then it's correct but the second sentence looks like it should either be deleted or moved under Broken Base.

YMMV.Ultraman Leo: Correct, although the two Example Indentations underneath it are Natter and can be deleted.

ComplacentGamingSyndrome.Video Games: Not an Example, it's a YMMV item on a Tropes Example subpage and it's part of a sentence that only serves as Natter and it's refereing to an element of a video game rather than characters.

NiceGuy.Web Original: Not an example, it's a YMMV item on a Tropes Example subpage and it's part of a sentence that only serves as Natter.

Worf Had the Flu: Not an example, just a character name from a work potholed.

YMMV.Yu Gi Oh: Correct.

Wick check seems to detail the issues pretty well, so I'll go ahead and open this one.

It wouldn't solve all of the page's problems by a long shot, but a name change to something like "Base-Breaking Character" would at the very least cut back on the amount of misuse mistaking it for Broken Bases in general.

Agreed, I think that name will clear up the confusion. Broken Base itself gets a lot of misuse, but Base Breaker has it even worse.

+1 for rename to Base-Breaking Character.

for rename. Its a small change, but hopefully it's enough.

Does anyone have another idea? I don't particularly like the aesthetics of Base-Breaking Character. It doesn't roll off the tongue.

edited 16th Jun '16 6:42:15 AM by war877

Is there a trope about a specific base breaking detail (that isn't a character) of an otherwise agreeable fandom?

All of the audience reaction tropes are either about the show overall or the characters or is not about polarisation but a specific audience reaction.

Let me see if I correctly understand what kind of examples go where:

• Broken Base: Overarching trope that describes any fanbase that is broken over anything. Examples that don't go anywhere else go here. Ex: In The '90s, the Star Trek fandom had a Broken Base between those who preferred Captain Kirk from the original series, and those who preferred Captain Picard of The Next Generation.
  • Base Breaker (proposed rename to Base-Breaking Character): Describes a character that causes positive and negative reactions so strong that they cause a Broken Base. Almost nobody is in the middle; everyone within the fanbase thinks this character is either the coolest thing ever or the worst thing ever. Ex: In Deep Space 9, Ezri Dax was either an interesting addition to shake up an established cast dynamic and a worthy successor for a character whose arc had gone as far as it could go, or she was a warmed-over Suspiciously Similar Substitute for a beloved character who had had a bridge dropped on her unceremoniously.
  • Contested Sequel: A sequel or entry in a series that causes a Broken Base. Ex: While Star Trek: The Next Generation was very popular and had many fans who considered it a worthy followup or even an Even Better Sequel, there remained a hardcore cadre of original series purists who would accept no version of Star Trek that did not include Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

• Love It or Hate It: In the vernacular, the phrase describes the sort of audience reaction that often results in a Broken Base. According to the page's definition, however, it refers only to a work which causes a love-it-or-hate-it reaction (as opposed to a character or element). Every Contested Sequel is, therefore, an example of Love It or Hate It by definition, but not every example of Love It or Hate It results in a Broken Base (because if it's a work that's not part of a franchise, then those who love it are the work's fanbase, and those who hate it are outside it).
  • Example of Love It or Hate It that's also a Contested Sequel and therefore also a Broken Base: While many Star Wars fans enjoyed Return of the Jedi's lightsaber fights and space battles and found it a fitting end to the Original Trilogy, many others found the Ewoks "too kiddy" and Darth Vader's last-minute redemption rushed and anticlimactic.
  • Example of Love It or Hate It that's not a Broken Base: Roger Ebert described Napoleon Dynamite as possessing "a kind of studied stupidity." A given viewer will either love the film for it, or hate it because of it. No one would deny that it's there, and there's no real middle ground to be had.

Do I have everything pretty much straight?

edited 16th Jun '16 10:19:06 AM by HighCrate

A minor mistake in sorting there:

The entire Base Love It. Although they may hate elements of it, they still love it or they are not part of the fanbase. A work which is Love It or Hate It has people who hate it. That is the difference.

A contested sequel can be more of a base breaker or more of a love it or hate it. See Fan Discontinuity for when most hate it.

One difference is that a Broken Base require the fans to fight over it. Love It or Hate It doesn't.

in favour of making of renaming Base Breaker to Base-Breaking Character.

Since no other solution has been suggested and this one seems to carry unanimous favor so far, made a crowner for rename.

Attached that crowner.

Many of the problems that plague Base Breaker, especially it being used as a thinly-veiled excuse for complaining, also plague Broken Base. Unlike Base Breaker, though, Broken Base's definition looks fine to me and I don't think a rename will help anything, so I don't think there's a need for a TRS thread. It's just garden-variety misuse that needs cleaning, so I've created a cleanup thread in Long-Term Projects: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14667066520A94266400&page=1#1

Also: how long is it considered good form to wait before calling a crowner? It's only been three days, which seems a little short, but the call for a name change is literally unanimous and it's gotten plenty of votes.

edited 23rd Jun '16 11:39:04 AM by HighCrate

I've moved the trope and its subpages, left a note in discussion, the FAQ thread, and Renamed Tropes, and requested that the old page be turned into a redirect.

Jawesome. This was sorely needed.

Is Base Breaker going to be turned into a redirect or a disambig?

Redirect. I don't see a need to disambiguate.

The need stems from the fact that people have been using Base Breaker as a synonym for Broken Base. As such a lot of the misuse will lead people to the wrong page.

And if the people adding the examples before didn't care enough to read the Base Breaker page, they probably won't even notice this fix.

Linking to a redirect is against the rules. Also, there is going to be a dewicking effort now.

Linking to a redirect is certainly less against the rules than linking to the wrong trope already. Which is what people do.

And yes, we will dewick it. But people are still going to wick it again. And a disambig is a much bigger red flag for an errant clicker to click on and go "oh, gee. That's the wrong link. I will fix this."

So, given that Broken Base now has a cleanup thread, should one also be made for Base Breaking Characters?

Presumably not. Renaming wicks+deleting misuse and ZCEs tends to be part of the ongoing TRS project.

edited 25th Jun '16 10:17:36 AM by Morgenthaler